Having HST procedure in a few weeks

[didi]

Would it be wise to advise every future HST patient to ask Gho to extract as many triples as possible, im sure everyone have 1500-2000 3s , since he can cherry pick grafts why not.

You are getting better return on your money, Unless you do hairline where you need singles but for crown and midscalp 3s and 4s are gold.

Does it make sense

[Arashi]

but it also means that ones we thought didnt regenerate(15&#37 may regenerate later on...

Exactly ! It also makes a lot of sense (at least to me). In order to regrow, the hair follicle has to repair itself first, using stem cells. Only after it repaired the damaged tissue it can start regrowing, so it makes a lot of sense for this to occur MUCH later than just 1 week. So that's why it's important to have some reference points (like a mole) so you can easily compare pictures, even after for example 5 months.

Kristel herself said, that the more tissue that gets damaged/extracted the longer it takes to grow the hair back. Hence the unextracted grafts grow back hair the fastest (the least damage to the follicle tissue) and succesful extractions take longer (but I don't know HOW long that may be).

BTW, does Gho separate grafts in petri dish or he just crams singles,doubles and triples in one partition of dish,?

Didn't pay attention to it myself unfortunately ... Wish I had, would love to have known how many singles, dual and tripple grafts were used ...

[didi]

This is very very interesting, how come nobody talked about unsuccessfull HST extractions before, GC you never mentioned this before?

Gc
'That's a great point Arashi, on my next procedure I will also count how many drills are made vs the clicks. Although I'm sure I would have been able to tell if it was actually 2:1'


2 to 1 ratio... means its safe to assume that HALF of hairs we thought were 'regenerated' were in fact just growing unsuccessfull extractions...
but it also means that ones we thought didnt regenerate(15%) may regenerate later on...


BTW, does Gho separate grafts in petri dish or he just crams singles,doubles and triples in one partition of dish,?

[Arashi]

On November 18, 2012, I posted and guessed in this thread here that "after 14 days Arashi will come up with a crazy story about no regrowth" - but Winston deleted this post.

It was dr Kristel van Herwijnen herself, who told me that the 'regrowth' within the first week most likely were just *unextracted* grafts growing hair back. She's so convinced in their technology that she doesn't have to con people. She just tells it how it is. Hence, it's important to keep this fact in mind, when trying to demonstrate REAL regrowth. We are all convinced it's there (otherwise I wouldnt have chosen HASCI myself), we just want to see pictures of it too.

[Arashi]

Ironman, are you on Fin ? You seem to be a very depressed guy. All you know is negativity. Look I'm just trying to give this guy some input I wish I had gotten before my procedure. Photo's without having kept track of the succesful extraction ratio are useless (because they might just show 'regrowth' of unextracted grafts, instead of real regrowth) and it's important to focus on several parts of your head instead of just one for that same reason.

[534623]

That 'Tobban' guy photo really means nothing by the way.
Of course some hairs are shorter than the others. The technician won't be able to extract each hair successfully, in fact, I think the ratio between 'drilling' and successful extraction was about 20:12 in my case.

Sure, because just the cool guy Arashi is able to show photos that mean a lot, by the way..

Wow - I'm impressed.

So let me guess:
gc83uk is the guy who just made photos

Beware guys, I'm a good guesser:
On November 18, 2012, I posted and guessed in this thread here that "after 14 days Arashi will come up with a crazy story about no regrowth" - but Winston deleted this post.

[534623]

Keep in mind that if you want to demonstrate regrowth, you'll have to shave it down again at some point.

Yup, that is a good idea.
Unfortunately, you yourself are unable to to this - right? Now after so many YEARS having the procedure, it makes no sense anymore to use your advice to demonstrate "real regrowth". But - too bad - your camera is just able to make photos - man, too bad - just from those area(s), where they had problems to extract grafts. In addition, unfortunately your camera is just able to take photos of very, very small areas of your scalp - right?

Here is my advice:
If you consider having a 2nd HST procedure, buy gc83uk's Euro 10,000 Nikon Coolpix digital camera. With such a good (but very expensive!) digital camera, you will be able to see even LARGE AREAS of the whole extraction area in 1 photo:

Before:

http://www.fileden.com/files/2012/3/15/3278666/gc83uk-Day-3.jpg

After:

http://www.fileden.com/files/2012/3/15/3278666/gc83uk-Day-13.jpg

As you can clearly see, gc83uk had 85% unsuccessful extractions and just 15% successfull extractions (within an approx. 2.5 cm² area) - but with no regrowth - I mean, according to your intelligent story.

So let me guess:
gc83uk is the guy who just made photos of those area, where the had problems to extract successful HST grafts - right?
And I'm the guy who knew exactly, where they had extreme problems with graft extractions - right?

[ccmethinning]

Hmmmm, is there any damage done to the follicle with an unsuccessful extraction?

[gc83uk]

c5000,

Here are some things to consider. The procedure goes like this: the technician will drill, probably 20 times in a row, then extract, then drill 20 times again etc. The technician will click each time after a succesful extraction, so you can easily count the ratio between drilling and succesful extraction. In my case, this was roughly 2:1 but this is HIGHLY dependent on the specific area of you scalp the technician is working on (at the right side of my head, the ratio was a LOT worse). The technician said that the flatter the angle of the hairgrowth, the more difficult extraction is.

Now, I've been making pictures of my donor area as well, and saw what I thought to be 'regrowth'. I asked the doctor if this was possible so quickly (within 7 days), the doctor said yes BUT that most likely these were the grafts that were NOT extracted succesfully. Hence, if you keep track of an area where the ratio is bad, you will see a lot of 'regrowth' which in fact is NOT regrowth but merely grafts that were not extracted.

So I now, in hindsight, regret a lot having focused my photoshooting on one specific area where the ratio was very bad and that I didn't shoot pictures of other area's. So, I'd say, try to find multiple area's on your head with reference points like birthmarks or something. Best would be of course to have some dots tatooed to several spots on your head, like Aderans did, but that's quite a dramatic measure, LOL

Anyway, make sure your photo's clearly show ALL of the extraction points, so you know exactly how many grafts were extracted in that area and try to keep a general count of the drills to succesful extract ratio of the different area's. All that is needed to reach a conclusion ....

That's a great point Arashi, on my next procedure I will also count how many drills are made vs the clicks. Although I'm sure I would have been able to tell if it was actually 2:1.

[Arashi]

Oh, and also DO ask them how many single, double and tripple grafts were extracted ! Some people think that HASCI focuses a lot on single grafts ... I also regret I didn't ask this myself ...

[Arashi]

c5000,

Here are some things to consider. The procedure goes like this: the technician will drill, probably 20 times in a row, then extract, then drill 20 times again etc. The technician will click each time after a succesful extraction, so you can easily count the ratio between drilling and succesful extraction. In my case, this was roughly 2:1 but this is HIGHLY dependent on the specific area of you scalp the technician is working on (at the right side of my head, the ratio was a LOT worse). The technician said that the flatter the angle of the hairgrowth, the more difficult extraction is.

Now, I've been making pictures of my donor area as well, and saw what I thought to be 'regrowth'. I asked the doctor if this was possible so quickly (within 7 days), the doctor said yes BUT that most likely these were the grafts that were NOT extracted succesfully. Hence, if you keep track of an area where the ratio is bad, you will see a lot of 'regrowth' which in fact is NOT regrowth but merely grafts that were not extracted.

So I now, in hindsight, regret a lot having focused my photoshooting on one specific area where the ratio was very bad and that I didn't shoot pictures of other area's. So, I'd say, try to find multiple area's on your head with reference points like birthmarks or something. Best would be of course to have some dots tatooed to several spots on your head, like Aderans did, but that's quite a dramatic measure, LOL

Anyway, make sure your photo's clearly show ALL of the extraction points, so you know exactly how many grafts were extracted in that area and try to keep a general count of the drills to succesful extract ratio of the different area's. All that is needed to reach a conclusion ....

[534623]

I think it should be possible ...

... for you, to explain me the following given data:

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/album.php?albumid=465

[didi]

c5000

You can do crown and tell Gho to extract triples and 4 hair FUs only if possible, that way you will get best coverage AND we will know for sure he doesnt split or takes singles only.

I think it should be possible, everyone should have 1500 triples at least,

if you could make him give you 2000 grafts 3s and 4s combo thats 6000 hairs, lot of coverage with relativly small amount

[c5000]

Gaz, my procedure is in 2 weeks. You're getting there mate, procedure by procedure it's coming along really nicely and eventually you'll have it looking just the way you want it. You have the right idea, be patient and save your money for each procedure.

I'm getting really excited about it, as I've said a few times before, the donor regeneration is a bonus, obviously as much regeneration as possible would be amazing, but I'm just so thankfull that there is a procedure available now that offers no visible scarring.

didi, yeah I've heard people say that before about crown work, but it's really the bit that I hate looking at the most, so if I can get my hair line lowered a bit with say 700 grafts and then use the other 700 for the crown just to provide more density, that would be great. I'm in it for the long haul, so even if I go with a really conservative hairline on this first procedure, I could always get it lowered again later if the doctors felt that was the right thing to do.

I can totally deal with having a "thin" spot on my crown, just not a total bald spot. So if it takes say 4000 grafts in total to get my crown almost back to normal then I'll maybe get 700-800 per procedure on the crown over 5 procedures.

I hope there's nothing in this post that people feel is insensitive to other people suffering from male pattern baldness, just wanted to give my honest perception and my "game plan" so to speak. I understand that there are people with more severe cases than my own, but everyone has their own story don't they?

I'll take photos of my shaved hair the night before the procedure to show my donor and recipient area before the procedure and then obviously loads of photos afterwards.

Thanks again for all the advice everyone.
c5000

[534623]

All, I bought this camera yesterday as it was cheapish and has 16x optical zoom, macro facility and the abilty to take 9 pics per click of the button so you can chose the best one. Hopefully it'll do the job:

http://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/samsung...77690-pdt.html

Interesting topic ...

Anyway, this is what your camera is able to do (test photos) ...

http://www.letsgodigital.org/en/32039/samsung-wb150f-test/

... and here is what my camera is able to do (test photos) ...

http://www.ephotozine.com/article/olympus-sz-14-compact-digital-camera-review-18478

Just for example:

http://www.magezinepublishing.com/equipment/images/equipment/SZ14-3767/highres/olympussz14portrait_1329404777.jpg

Click in the photo (e.g. the girls face) to "zoom-in" ...

Or here (click in the photo!):

http://www.magezinepublishing.com/equipment/images/equipment/SZ14-3767/highres/olympussz14landscapewithbuilding_1330437505.jpg

The perfect paparazzi-camera. lol

Anyway, mine is even cheaper ...