GC83UK After 5th HST

[Arashi]

Well you say "this time I pick the photo", maybe you didnt mean it like that but it sounds to me you think I cherrypicked a certain photo. I didn't, just took the first photo I thought was good enough quality to do a decent analysis.

[gc83uk]

Well you say "this time I pick the photo", maybe you didnt mean it like that but it sounds to me you think I cherrypicked a certain photo. I didn't, just took the first photo I thought was good enough quality to do a decent analysis.

lol, no!

I mean I would pick the photo because of what I said about angles earlier, that is all!

[Arashi]

lol, no!

I mean I would pick the photo because of what I said about angles earlier, that is all!

Ok, internet can be confusing sometimes when it comes to communication But what I liked about this photo too was not just what it was a sharp one: I also liked the hairlength here. If the hair is much longer than in this photo, analysis becomes harder if not impossible and when it's too short, it becomes harder to differentiate between 1's and 2's.

Anyway I think that if I had cherrypicked a photo and/or the area I possibly even have might have gotten below 1.25 but honestly I took a random photo and a random area, just one I was sure that it was bald skin before. I trust you to do the same and I'd be happy to verify your analysis !

[gc83uk]

Ok, internet can be confusing sometimes when it comes to communication But what I liked about this photo too was not just what it was a sharp one: I also liked the hairlength here. If the hair is much longer than in this photo, analysis becomes harder if not impossible and when it's too short, it becomes harder to differentiate between 1's and 2's.

Anyway I think that if I had cherrypicked a photo and/or the area I possibly even have might have gotten below 1.25 but honestly I took a random photo and a random area, just one I was sure that it was bald skin before. I trust you to do the same and I'd be happy to verify your analysis !

OK well what I'll do is upload what I did a couple of days ago here (pic), I didn't really do it for 'other people' so it's a bit messy, I just did it for myself!

Have a look at it and then I'll do another analysis more precise.... to be honest, whether it's 1.28 or 1.41 it isn't a big difference, btw if your wondering why I marked some of the grafts on the edges of the picture as a 1 or 2, it's because I cropped it around the blurry areas and almost cut off some grafts!

[gc83uk]

analysis

I've done a larger analysis from a photo which was taken around october/november 2013.

848 Fu's in total.

Average came out at 1.37 hairs per FU.
Average of 39 FU's cm2
53 hairs cm2

In the slick area, I had approx 4500 grafts (this is before my most recent HST)
Slick area 115cm2
So assuming this 39 grafts is correct and indeed the average all over the slick area, then that would equate to 4485 grafts. Which adds up of course.

Obviously 53 hairs per cm2 isn't enough, 1cm2 white sqaure in the picture indicates approx 70 hairs in that cm2 with other areas less than 50 to give the average of 53!

I've since had another 600 or so placed in the slick area (the other 600 was placed in the front areas), which is a drop in the ocean, that equates to approx 7 hairs cm2. So I'm probably on around 60 hairs cm2 at the moment. The next 1200 grafts I have // 1650 hairs will be going directly into the main slick area. So that should take me up to 75 hairs cm2, which I also know isn't exactly amazing, especially when you have zero hairs to begin with.

Here is the analysis I did, not perfect, some 1 hairs could be 2 hairs because they always stick together and of course some 2 hairs could in fact be 1 hairs depending on groupings, there was a few 3 hairs too, but chosen to ignore those..., however I guess the important thing is the total number of hairs!

I would have thought anything less than 100 hairs cm2 or 70 HST FU's isn't really going to allow me to have my hair long, but to get to that figure I would need another 3400 HST grafts, which would mean a total of 9500 HST grafts including the 1000 I put in the front and at the moment I'm only prepared to go for another 1200 assuming my donor is OK!
I'll have to just see what happens, but I really don't think I can get 9500 HST grafts or 13000 hairs from my donor, it wasn't strong enough to begin with, that is basically the equivalent of 6000-7000 normal FUE, especially when other clinics were saying I had a max of 2000-2500 before I started this journey, there is no way I can go that far IMO.

[caddarik79]

I've done a larger analysis from a photo which was taken around october/november 2013.

848 Fu's in total.

Average came out at 1.37 hairs per FU.
Average of 39 FU's cm2
53 hairs cm2

In the slick area, I had approx 4500 grafts (this is before my most recent HST)
Slick area 115cm2
So assuming this 39 grafts is correct and indeed the average all over the slick area, then that would equate to 4485 grafts. Which adds up of course.

Obviously 53 hairs per cm2 isn't enough, 1cm2 white sqaure in the picture indicates approx 70 hairs in that cm2 with other areas less than 50 to give the average of 53!

I've since had another 600 or so placed in the slick area (the other 600 was placed in the front areas), which is a drop in the ocean, that equates to approx 7 hairs cm2. So I'm probably on around 60 hairs cm2 at the moment. The next 1200 grafts I have // 1650 hairs will be going directly into the main slick area. So that should take me up to 75 hairs cm2, which I also know isn't exactly amazing, especially when you have zero hairs to begin with.

Here is the analysis I did, not perfect, some 1 hairs could be 2 hairs because they always stick together and of course some 2 hairs could in fact be 1 hairs depending on groupings, there was a few 3 hairs too, but chosen to ignore those..., however I guess the important thing is the total number of hairs!

I would have thought anything less than 100 hairs cm2 or 70 HST FU's isn't really going to allow me to have my hair long, but to get to that figure I would need another 3400 HST grafts, which would mean a total of 9500 HST grafts including the 1000 I put in the front and at the moment I'm only prepared to go for another 1200 assuming my donor is OK!
I'll have to just see what happens, but I really don't think I can get 9500 HST grafts or 13000 hairs from my donor, it wasn't strong enough to begin with, that is basically the equivalent of 6000-7000 normal FUE, especially when other clinics were saying I had a max of 2000-2500 before I started this journey, there is no way I can go that far IMO.

If you have the budget, I would go for the maximum sessions and discuss it with them.
Your donor still looks fine and should be OK, especially if by having another 3400 grafts, it allows you to have longer haircut.

again, if you have the money, if it isn't a problem, exploit your donor to its maximum.
Anyway, it can only improve your recipient result (which is the area that really determines your look) and what would stay behin, be left in donor, you keep for the case "real multiplication" happens.

Personally, now that I invested else where (because of doubts about 85% regen, did not want to be fooled for so much money), I cannot really go yearly as planned, so I am more "on hold" and observing your results.

But my 2 cents are:

we are not yet in those times where it will be possible to achieve our almost original density.
being a slick NW5-6 or 7 at 35, 40 or 45 is not exactly what we planned to enjoy our lives.
even if I agree with Arashi on some points (altough we sometimes had shitty arguments here, but I reckon his work is pretty altruisti, cause he wants to avoid people being scammed) I still think that HST is the best treatment out there, am just so pissed of about the probable lie on regeneration and agree that if it is a demonstrated lie, they should be impacted, cause I paid 10.000 € for a 85% regen treatment in donor, not for an improved FUE, it's not acceptable.

BUT, being obsessed with perfection now is stupid!!!

either you chose to accept your balding, either you decide to fight it and if you have the money, you go for HST!!!

about the density, my idea, to bridge smartly, is that not every zones of a recipient need a high density!
Hairline is very important, I would put 70 grafts/cm2 there, mid-scalp can be lower (would need another session in your case), same for vertex/crown.
A "see trough" in Hariline is f**cked up, you will still have people telling you, you are balding blabla, or you would still be pissed of at spotlight, wind, sun etc...

Then you have a fair coverage and you go back to your life with some options on haircut, even if limited, it is still much better than the slick NW7 limitation! and you stay like that until better treatments reach the market.

I would say 120 hairs/cm2 on HL to frame and close your face, 80 to 100 in the middle and crown, and haircut that are not longer than 2,5 cm!!!

THIS situation, even if achieved with very expensive consecutive HST, is much much much better then being slick NW6!!!

and again, it's only if you have the budget... cause I would not jeopardise my life with 80.000 € treatments if it's not sure 85% regen!

as stated by Arashi, if it's really 85% regen, everyone should be able to go for 12, 15 sessions, with no problem!!!

IF 85% was true and real and very confirmed, I would give it 80.000, cause I would feel comfortable with the invest... going from a NW6 to a NW1 or even NW2 dense, is worth (still I hope it will be a bit more affordable in the future)

so with all that being said, if I were you, and I you have the budget, I would go for the max sessions!!!

Your donor still looks fine, with another two or three sessions, you will be really OK on top and if you have a general lenght that stay above 1,5cm, your depletion if it comes, will not be obvious (because of your lenght).

then you wait for 2020 to see if this very forum is excited about "hair multiplication being OK for booking"... if not, you keep your very improved but not perfect situation... and you come back in 2023 etc etc LOL

[Arashi]

I've done a larger analysis from a photo which was taken around october/november 2013.

848 Fu's in total.

Average came out at 1.37 hairs per FU.
Average of 39 FU's cm2
53 hairs cm2

In the slick area, I had approx 4500 grafts (this is before my most recent HST)
Slick area 115cm2
So assuming this 39 grafts is correct and indeed the average all over the slick area, then that would equate to 4485 grafts. Which adds up of course.

Obviously 53 hairs per cm2 isn't enough, 1cm2 white sqaure in the picture indicates approx 70 hairs in that cm2 with other areas less than 50 to give the average of 53!

I've since had another 600 or so placed in the slick area (the other 600 was placed in the front areas), which is a drop in the ocean, that equates to approx 7 hairs cm2. So I'm probably on around 60 hairs cm2 at the moment. The next 1200 grafts I have // 1650 hairs will be going directly into the main slick area. So that should take me up to 75 hairs cm2, which I also know isn't exactly amazing, especially when you have zero hairs to begin with.

Here is the analysis I did, not perfect, some 1 hairs could be 2 hairs because they always stick together and of course some 2 hairs could in fact be 1 hairs depending on groupings, there was a few 3 hairs too, but chosen to ignore those..., however I guess the important thing is the total number of hairs!

I would have thought anything less than 100 hairs cm2 or 70 HST FU's isn't really going to allow me to have my hair long, but to get to that figure I would need another 3400 HST grafts, which would mean a total of 9500 HST grafts including the 1000 I put in the front and at the moment I'm only prepared to go for another 1200 assuming my donor is OK!
I'll have to just see what happens, but I really don't think I can get 9500 HST grafts or 13000 hairs from my donor, it wasn't strong enough to begin with, that is basically the equivalent of 6000-7000 normal FUE, especially when other clinics were saying I had a max of 2000-2500 before I started this journey, there is no way I can go that far IMO.

Thanks for sharing your research Gaz ! Any chance you could do a count of your donor density on a few different spots in your donor ?

[gc83uk]

If you have the budget, I would go for the maximum sessions and discuss it with them.
Your donor still looks fine and should be OK, especially if by having another 3400 grafts, it allows you to have longer haircut.

again, if you have the money, if it isn't a problem, exploit your donor to its maximum.
Anyway, it can only improve your recipient result (which is the area that really determines your look) and what would stay behin, be left in donor, you keep for the case "real multiplication" happens.

Personally, now that I invested else where (because of doubts about 85% regen, did not want to be fooled for so much money), I cannot really go yearly as planned, so I am more "on hold" and observing your results.

But my 2 cents are:

we are not yet in those times where it will be possible to achieve our almost original density.
being a slick NW5-6 or 7 at 35, 40 or 45 is not exactly what we planned to enjoy our lives.
even if I agree with Arashi on some points (altough we sometimes had shitty arguments here, but I reckon his work is pretty altruisti, cause he wants to avoid people being scammed) I still think that HST is the best treatment out there, am just so pissed of about the probable lie on regeneration and agree that if it is a demonstrated lie, they should be impacted, cause I paid 10.000 € for a 85% regen treatment in donor, not for an improved FUE, it's not acceptable.

BUT, being obsessed with perfection now is stupid!!!

either you chose to accept your balding, either you decide to fight it and if you have the money, you go for HST!!!

about the density, my idea, to bridge smartly, is that not every zones of a recipient need a high density!
Hairline is very important, I would put 70 grafts/cm2 there, mid-scalp can be lower (would need another session in your case), same for vertex/crown.
A "see trough" in Hariline is f**cked up, you will still have people telling you, you are balding blabla, or you would still be pissed of at spotlight, wind, sun etc...

Then you have a fair coverage and you go back to your life with some options on haircut, even if limited, it is still much better than the slick NW7 limitation! and you stay like that until better treatments reach the market.

I would say 120 hairs/cm2 on HL to frame and close your face, 80 to 100 in the middle and crown, and haircut that are not longer than 2,5 cm!!!

THIS situation, even if achieved with very expensive consecutive HST, is much much much better then being slick NW6!!!

and again, it's only if you have the budget... cause I would not jeopardise my life with 80.000 € treatments if it's not sure 85% regen!

as stated by Arashi, if it's really 85% regen, everyone should be able to go for 12, 15 sessions, with no problem!!!

IF 85% was true and real and very confirmed, I would give it 80.000, cause I would feel comfortable with the invest... going from a NW6 to a NW1 or even NW2 dense, is worth (still I hope it will be a bit more affordable in the future)

so with all that being said, if I were you, and I you have the budget, I would go for the max sessions!!!

Your donor still looks fine, with another two or three sessions, you will be really OK on top and if you have a general lenght that stay above 1,5cm, your depletion if it comes, will not be obvious (because of your lenght).

then you wait for 2020 to see if this very forum is excited about "hair multiplication being OK for booking"... if not, you keep your very improved but not perfect situation... and you come back in 2023 etc etc LOL

Good point about the hairline. But for the next treatment I just have to concentrate on the mid scalp area for sure!

I think you know this, but there is no chance that the regeneration is 85%, I think you're hanging on and hoping that somehow regeneration continues for months after the procedure!

The only way of putting this whole thing to bed is for someone with excellent photography skills and able to document properly doing 500 grafts at Hasci.

Finding 500 grafts is not ten times more difficult than the 50 graft test we all wanted, I know Hasci accept small procedures. Just don't tell Hasci about the analysis. Job done.

[gc83uk]

Thanks for sharing your research Gaz ! Any chance you could do a count of your donor density on a few different spots in your donor ?

Do you mean from the old photos where the hair is short? Or now? I haven't shaved my head since Hasci did on Aug 4th. How about we measure the length of my two scars in my donor and use that as a guide on the old photos?

[caddarik79]

Good point about the hairline. But for the next treatment I just have to concentrate on the mid scalp area for sure!

I think you know this, but there is no chance that the regeneration is 85%, I think you're hanging on and hoping that somehow regeneration continues for months after the procedure!

The only way of putting this whole thing to bed is for someone with excellent photography skills and able to document properly doing 500 grafts at Hasci.

Finding 500 grafts is not ten times more difficult than the 50 graft test we all wanted, I know Hasci accept small procedures. Just don't tell Hasci about the analysis. Job done.

You will consider me as crazy, maybe, but I still want to believe in their 85% regeneration.
I know that loads of efforts have been made to demonstrate that it's not the case, but for me it's also too big to believe that one can run a very very juicy business, touching bodies integrity of people without being arrested or stopped or sued.

HASCI never removed their claims from their site. It shows some very strong confidence.
They keep on having fully booked agenda's.

I was ready for other sessions, seeing your case and your donor... but Arashi and some other people here brought some other pieces of evidence that stopped me from saving money for that.

My biggest reproach to them, is their communication, it does not help, especially when you are aware of the controverse.
I guess, people who are not going on TBT forum don't care and book their sessions.

I came here to monitor people's results (people like you) and I was soooo sure for multiple sessions.... then came JJJr's and Arashi's work... and it stopped me!

I think I will send them the site that Arashi put online, and ask them to put themselves in the place of an ex-patient reading this "exposed" site!!!!

[Arashi]

Do you mean from the old photos where the hair is short? Or now? I haven't shaved my head since Hasci did on Aug 4th. How about we measure the length of my two scars in my donor and use that as a guide on the old photos?

Well I was hoping you could do a count of your current situation but I now realize that you don't have your hair short enough. Ok, no hurry, whenever you cut it short again (maybe for your next HST), please shoot some pics together with a cm2 cut out like you did before, would be really interesting !

[Arashi]

I think I will send them the site that Arashi put online, and ask them to put themselves in the place of an ex-patient reading this "exposed" site!!!!

Well, I think they'll tell you lies. That's what they did to me. In fact, I had a conference call with Gho and Kristel about that 50 graft test which they denied. They told me "We've published in a scientific magazine, that's something that's really hard to do, these guys investigated EVERYTHING over the course of 2 years, they checked all photo's and went through everything". That's a confirmed lie now. The editor of that magazine told the Dutch Advertising commission that that never happened. The magazine just scratched the name from the article (to make it anonymous so these 2 people wouldnt know who wrote it), sent it out to 2 of their 'peers', who reviewed it. Just the magazine article, nothing else. They admitted they never investigated if it worked, they only checked to see if HASCI followed a scientific methodology, that's all !! So HASCI told me lies. They will probably will do the same if you confront them with the website. Still, it would be VERY interesting to hear them, especially how they would explain this: http://www.hasci-exposed.com/partial.html ! Tell them you're considering a treatment but want clarification first and let's see what they come up with.

[caddarik79]

I did send an email to them!!!

Not as a trap, but really and sincerely because, as an ex patient, as an ex-very enthusiastic pro Gho, i'm lost now!!!

I don't want to believe in your demonstrations but I reckon you seem to have worked on it, not to have improvised it!!!

you probably want as much as I do, that 85% regeneration!

I did not continue HST because of you and other people's effort in bashing HST here.
I don't know yet if I have to be grateful or if I should book for next year in Maastricht.

Your exposed website is quiet convincing... as much as their self confidence is.

I hope they will answer me and surprise me with facts.

The fact that the debate is still open in 2014 is crazy!!!!

Even Ironman shut up since you brought your numerous facts and he was Gho number 1 ultimate fan!!!

85% regeneration was the only reason why i agreed to undergo a "transplant"!!!!

My biggest hope is that they shut your mouth, but if not... ...

[Arashi]

you probably want as much as I do, that 85% regeneration!

Of course ! 85% regeneration equals a cure, I would just have a few sessions of HST's and move on !

The fact that the debate is still open in 2014 is crazy!!!!

Well in my opinion the debate is closed, there's really nothing that speaks in their favour and there's tons of evidence pointing that it's all a lie. But if they would want to 'shut me up', then really, ALL they would have to do is perform a 50 graft test on me ! If their claims would be found true, I'd not only delete the site but I'd turn it into a HASCI fan site Really, that's all they would have to do. But of course, that will never happen, cause it's all a lie. I don't really see how you can deny that anymore, this just can't be explained other than that HST = FUE: http://www.hasci-exposed.com/partial.html

[gc83uk]

Even Ironman shut up since you brought your numerous facts and he was Gho number 1 ultimate fan!!!

I can assure you he is still a Gho fan, I'm in contact with him via email, he is being moderated here, so his comments can be delayed by days which makes it pretty pointless for him commenting so he says.