Gho's files patent for Hair multiplication

[caddarik79]

go cure your dysmorphophobia man!!! I said 1.5, I said I have 390 posts you have ten times more!!! means of course you are more knowledgeable (but still what a douche!!!)

I agree with 65% of all what you have so far debunked!!! there is 45% of your extremist positionning that I don't like, nor agree with!!!

You bring a new patent, of course I go further and contact them to investigate and bring it here!!!

again, if they are scam, bury them once and for good, why do you bother yourself???? get a life!!!

You talk to people like they are shit, just because they give roughly almost the same but not totally the same numbers as you do!!! I have 390 posts dude!!! I came back answering cause your new patent stuff seemed interesting!!!! you brought it to us!!!

[Arashi]

You talk to people like they are shit

I suggest you read back your last post. Oh and also please show me where I behaved like you are behaving now. Thanks !

[caddarik79]

you over react on that!!!

grossly I said!!!

"wow, new patent, let's contact deborah"

then answer from Gho= not for now!!!

your reaction: not for now= marketing= Gho is fraud!!!! (i don't agree with that!!)

again, if you are so fast at conclusions why the **** do you open a discussion where people like me are likely to react!!!!


later, Gaz case!!! I applause it, it's brilliant... you still need to bash it on every ****in answer!!!


can we just follow it without you giving lessons in each and every answer?

If it's so shitty and fraud and scam, for sure 100%, why do you keep being curious about Gaz???!!!

you can be a real pain in the ass!!!!

we should meet and have a beer with Gaz, and other HST patient... and compare our donors and results in live!!!!


Gaz is one of the best hair result I've seen....and unfortunately for you, it comes from Gho!!!

[caddarik79]

I suggest you read back your last post. Oh and also please show me where I behaved like you are behaving now. Thanks !

read your own reactions and answers from the beginning!!!

you always quote some part of my message and try to either bash, or talk like I am a dumbass!!!

I give rough numbers, your thing is scrutinising!!!

I only defended the idea that HST is the best bridge option so far (because of Gaz case amazing me)

he might have lost 20% of donor, or 15% or 40% of what was harvested (I doubt it)...who knows? we don't have pics from his donor at day 1! this is the weak point of YOUR study!!!


Time will bring the answers... Gaz case is there for that!!!!

[Arashi]

read your own reactions and answers from the beginning!!!

you always quote some part of my message and try to either bash, or talk like I am a dumbass!!!

I give rough numbers, your thing is scrutinising!!!

I only defended the idea that HST is the best bridge option so far (because of Gaz case amazing me)

he might have lost 20% of donor, or 15% or 40% of what was harvested (I doubt it)...who knows? we don't have pics from his donor at day 1! this is the weak point of YOUR study!!!


Time will bring the answers... Gaz case is there for that!!!!

You're just wrong about pretty much everything you say. You went away a while from the forum, so I understand you missed quite a bit research. Yet you come here now, making all kinds of assumptions and statements like you KNOW what's going on, while in fact you're wrong about everything. And when I show you the facts, you start making insults. What do you expect me to do then ? Say you're assumptions are right ?

[caddarik79]

I was 100% with you on Nigam!!! and I am not 100% with you about Gho!!!

CB, Tsuji Lab, Hair cloning, follica... nothing of this is out!!!

I focus on what exist cause life does not wait.... I share my feelings about Gaz and the fact that he made me be tempted again by HST...

a year ago, I cancelled a procedure thanks to your debunking, and I am glad I did!!! cause I need more ease to go re-expose my donor and Gaz might bring it (or not)

[caddarik79]

You're just wrong about pretty much everything you say. You went away a while from the forum, so I understand you missed quite a bit research. Yet you come here now, making all kinds of assumptions and statements like you KNOW what's going on, while in fact you're wrong about everything. And when I show you the facts, you start making insults. What do you expect me to do then ? Say you're assumptions are right ?

look how you start your sentences!!! haha

that is when you start to upset me...

you are an anti-Gho!!!

I used to be a pro-Gho... now I have some doubts...

I don't trust YOUR study and assumptions, YOUR study would have been a good one if pics were all 100% professionnal and if we could have followed Gaz donor from day 1, with the same lenght!!

YOUR study is biased because Gaz did not respect all the ritual of HST (spread the zone, 9 months in between each procedure).

I guess on 100 patients, there must be some excellent results and some less excellent (your case apparently).

I guess Gho felt you were requesting test, only to debunk him, he did not want to play with you!!!

They said yes for one or two (I don't remember) but I guess they felt some traps there!!!

I agree with you, I would not claim a bold 85% and advertise this way if I cannot guarantee it in each and every test... on the other hand, I am very surprised they are still legit, and were not more prosecuted!!!!

opening 4 or 5 clinics on a huge lie, you need some guts!!!! inviting celeb to be your ambassad... it's risky for when you will fall!!!


for all those reasons, I am in the middle, and that's why I did not go for a 2nd last september!!!

we need more cases and more analysis!!!

My point on this very thread: "OK BUT ISN'T GHO YET THE BEST OPTION TO BRIDGE"? I wanted to debate on that!!

now, my hairloss does not depress me to the point I need to rush, it seems to be the same for you.... that's why I observe and react on Gho's thread!!! am also interested in other future treatments, in the Desmond trip in S Korea and what he brought....

am just tempted to bring some density on top without jeopardising my donor...Gaz will help me make a decision!!!! I find him less arrogant in the way he answers to people!!!


end of the story!!!


have a nice evening guyzzz!!! (including you Arashi, it's only a forum)

[35YrsAfter]

I don't trust YOUR study and assumptions, YOUR study would have been a good one if pics were all 100% professionnal and if we could have followed Gaz donor from day 1, with the same lenght!!

YOUR study is biased because Gaz did not respect all the ritual of HST (spread the zone, 9 months in between each procedure).

All this talk about Gaz photos. They're in a Dutch forum? I haven't seen any of his pictures here. Could someone post them here in this forum?

Chuck

[534623]

The debate here started with the new patent ...

Yeah, the whole "new patent" blah blah in this thread (and idea behind it) is very "new" ...

http://youtu.be/Cc2fAhzVbdU

(08:00 --->)

[gc83uk]

Hi Chuck, when they say Gaz, they are referring to me. I have created a link to a recent set of photos about 3 or 4 pages back in this thread.

Caddarik I agree with your statement that this is the best option currently, but I suppose I would say that.

I remember seeing Dr Bessam Farjo in Manchester UK around summer 2011, part of the IAHRS so he comes highly recommended! He said my donor was below average and could do around 2000 grafts, but the result would be very thin and I wouldn't be able to have anymore procedures after this. He also said that would be a combination of FUT and FUE. He thought I was so bad that I was one of the few patients that would benefit from a scalp reduction first. I was open to all ideas, but I'm so glad I didn't go down that route.

As for the 1.25 per graft, my analysis comes closer to 1.35 - 1.4 per graft, big difference to 1.25.

FUE from what I've read can be as high as 2.5 hairs per graft, but it can also be as low as 1.7 or 1.8 hairs per graft. I remember reading an article on 'Callum Best', son of 'George Best' for anyone who doesn't know who he is... anyway he has had a couple of hair transplants of late, he is a quote from the article:

"Calum underwent a second £6,000 hair transplant in two years earlier this month at Manchester's Crown Clinic, with his hairline transformed by having an incredible 1,257 grafts - amounting to 2,228 individual hairs - moved from the side of his scalp to the front."

That sounds like 1.77 hairs per graft. I've been told that this is not unusual.

Plenty of results on this forum claiming similar results too, around 1.7-1.8.
Now all these FUE surgeons can't all be crap, surely? It must be down to the individuals hair characteristics too.

The guys at HDC, from Cyprus, I went to one of their free consultations in London and they used one of those usb cameras. The guy wasn't keep on giving me a transplant, saying I have a weak donor and lots of 1 hair grafts, which I could see on the camera. But I think he was getting at the fact that I had hardly any 3 or 4 hair grafts at all, unlike most people. Obviously most of my grafts in my donor are 2 hair grafts, but the average hair per graft was lower than average.

Add that to the fact I had two large scars right in the middle of my donor area, failed hair transplant from when I was 13/14 years old. I can't remember exactly how many grafts were extracted, but I think close to 1000, however the size of the scar might indicate more.

It's also arguable that FUE yields are around 80%, something which came right from Mwamba, maybe that explains why someone like Callum Best is only getting 1.77 hairs per graft on average. And of course HST is looking well over 95% graft survival.

So all in all, FUE in my case probably wouldn't have yielded a much improved result in my recipient vs HST.

I think if I were to go for FUE, then I would be looking for the very best and a promise of over 2 hairs per graft, but I don't know if anyone could have really guaranteed me that.

Also the 0-38% possible regeneration rate which Arashi quoted earlier in the thread, he quite rightly said it could be zero. But it's also worth pointing out that it could be 38% I'm a half full kind of person! It could even be much higher, but no point going over old ground with old data.

As for my donor area, I may have over done it, this is up for discussion and as Arashi points out, people will differ their opinions. The scars I have definitely make it look worse and having my first 2 x HST's extracted the way I requested, really didn't help.

I can't remember how many HST grafts I have had, someone said 5500, but I thought it was closer to 5000 tbh.

Those 5000 grafts should equate to about 7000 hairs.
If I had gone for FUE and managed to surpass the result of some other FUE results and got myself 1.8 hairs per graft, then that would give me 9000 hairs. Who knows how many of those 9000 will survive, 80%? 7200? How longs a piece of string.

Plus I'm pretty sure I didn't have 5000 x FUE grafts to extract, 3000 tops and that would still give me less hair than I have already gained with HST.

Just so I don't sound completely biased. The direction of the grafts in HST is a bit shit if I'm honest! I noticed when Gho did my first HST he grafts all seemed to grow the same way especially the ones at the front, maybe because he mainly used 1 hair grafts at the front, as you should. However subsequent procedures show the hairs sprouting in all different directions. Good news is however, when the hair is below 1cm you can't tell at all or when the hair is like over say 3cm-ish it straightens itself out. I know Arashi has noticed the same and cocacola dude mentioned it after seeing my pics.

Anyway sorry for the long post, not posted much here lately, had a lot on, got wedding in 4 weeks too. I must be mad having a 5th HST 2 weeks before wedding lol.
Lucky the healing time is about 6 days though.

[cocacola]

For me the directions got better with time, i dont know why tho. I wear it long (10 cm) and comb it all the time, maybe that.

[gc83uk]

For me the directions got better with time, i dont know why tho. I wear it long (10 cm) and comb it all the time, maybe that.

Yes exactly, training the hair! I wonder though if you were to cut it short again back to say 2cm, whether it would go back to how it was. Will you be going back for another HST?

[Arashi]

@Gaz: about those hairs/graft, it's widely accepted that the average person has 2.5 hairs/graft. So if on average a surgeon transplants less, then there are only 3 possibilities:
1) The person in question just has a lower hair/graft count. This happens a lot, there seems to be a big variance among people, mostly caused by race differences
2) The surgeon cherry picked/favoured lower hair/graft FU's
3) The surgeon split grafts and leaves something behind, like HASCI does.

Now AFAIK every FUE surgeon just takes away the whole FU. So if you would be right that on average FUE doctors transplants less hairs/FU, then that would mean the surgeon would favour 1's and 2's FU's (or it would just have to be a person with less hair/FU). It might be the case of course but it just seems odd that a FUE surgeon would cherry pick lower hair FU's.

Anyway it's relevant to the whole discussion of course, cause if you're right about that you could lose 2000 FU's before hitting 125 hairs/cm2, did the surgeon then have 5000 hairs in mind or less ?

Regardless, I think it's really interesting now to do an analysis of your current density !

[caddarik79]

Hi Chuck, when they say Gaz, they are referring to me. I have created a link to a recent set of photos about 3 or 4 pages back in this thread.

Caddarik I agree with your statement that this is the best option currently, but I suppose I would say that.

I remember seeing Dr Bessam Farjo in Manchester UK around summer 2011, part of the IAHRS so he comes highly recommended! He said my donor was below average and could do around 2000 grafts, but the result would be very thin and I wouldn't be able to have anymore procedures after this. He also said that would be a combination of FUT and FUE. He thought I was so bad that I was one of the few patients that would benefit from a scalp reduction first. I was open to all ideas, but I'm so glad I didn't go down that route.

As for the 1.25 per graft, my analysis comes closer to 1.35 - 1.4 per graft, big difference to 1.25.

FUE from what I've read can be as high as 2.5 hairs per graft, but it can also be as low as 1.7 or 1.8 hairs per graft. I remember reading an article on 'Callum Best', son of 'George Best' for anyone who doesn't know who he is... anyway he has had a couple of hair transplants of late, he is a quote from the article:

"Calum underwent a second £6,000 hair transplant in two years earlier this month at Manchester's Crown Clinic, with his hairline transformed by having an incredible 1,257 grafts - amounting to 2,228 individual hairs - moved from the side of his scalp to the front."

That sounds like 1.77 hairs per graft. I've been told that this is not unusual.

Plenty of results on this forum claiming similar results too, around 1.7-1.8.
Now all these FUE surgeons can't all be crap, surely? It must be down to the individuals hair characteristics too.

The guys at HDC, from Cyprus, I went to one of their free consultations in London and they used one of those usb cameras. The guy wasn't keep on giving me a transplant, saying I have a weak donor and lots of 1 hair grafts, which I could see on the camera. But I think he was getting at the fact that I had hardly any 3 or 4 hair grafts at all, unlike most people. Obviously most of my grafts in my donor are 2 hair grafts, but the average hair per graft was lower than average.

Add that to the fact I had two large scars right in the middle of my donor area, failed hair transplant from when I was 13/14 years old. I can't remember exactly how many grafts were extracted, but I think close to 1000, however the size of the scar might indicate more.

It's also arguable that FUE yields are around 80%, something which came right from Mwamba, maybe that explains why someone like Callum Best is only getting 1.77 hairs per graft on average. And of course HST is looking well over 95% graft survival.

So all in all, FUE in my case probably wouldn't have yielded a much improved result in my recipient vs HST.

I think if I were to go for FUE, then I would be looking for the very best and a promise of over 2 hairs per graft, but I don't know if anyone could have really guaranteed me that.

Also the 0-38% possible regeneration rate which Arashi quoted earlier in the thread, he quite rightly said it could be zero. But it's also worth pointing out that it could be 38% I'm a half full kind of person! It could even be much higher, but no point going over old ground with old data.

As for my donor area, I may have over done it, this is up for discussion and as Arashi points out, people will differ their opinions. The scars I have definitely make it look worse and having my first 2 x HST's extracted the way I requested, really didn't help.

I can't remember how many HST grafts I have had, someone said 5500, but I thought it was closer to 5000 tbh.

Those 5000 grafts should equate to about 7000 hairs.
If I had gone for FUE and managed to surpass the result of some other FUE results and got myself 1.8 hairs per graft, then that would give me 9000 hairs. Who knows how many of those 9000 will survive, 80%? 7200? How longs a piece of string.

Plus I'm pretty sure I didn't have 5000 x FUE grafts to extract, 3000 tops and that would still give me less hair than I have already gained with HST.

Just so I don't sound completely biased. The direction of the grafts in HST is a bit shit if I'm honest! I noticed when Gho did my first HST he grafts all seemed to grow the same way especially the ones at the front, maybe because he mainly used 1 hair grafts at the front, as you should. However subsequent procedures show the hairs sprouting in all different directions. Good news is however, when the hair is below 1cm you can't tell at all or when the hair is like over say 3cm-ish it straightens itself out. I know Arashi has noticed the same and cocacola dude mentioned it after seeing my pics.

Anyway sorry for the long post, not posted much here lately, had a lot on, got wedding in 4 weeks too. I must be mad having a 5th HST 2 weeks before wedding lol.
Lucky the healing time is about 6 days though.

thank you very much for your long and interesting answer.

6 or 7 days to heal, I had the same time and went to a party + concert on day 7 ;-)

reading you, I am even more convinced about my "claim" that Hst is the best solution for now!!!

I hope they are planning (even if it is in five years) to bring us what the patent brought to light by Arashi describes!!!

I personally think you will look really really OK after your august session!!!

If you can do one more after that, jump for it cause I guess, density with another 2 sessions at 1400 grafts would allow you to grow hair and enjoy different faces and hairstyle!!! and I wish you that... cause, what a helpful and nice guy you are!!!

enjoy your Hst, and more important, I wish you a wonderful wedding!!!

I will follow your evolution and pics with pleasure and will give my honest sincere opinion about your results and donor, might go for a session in 2015 ;-)

all the best!!! take care!!!

[gc83uk]

@Arashi Re: fue
There must be a reason why the likes of Hassan & Wong don't do FUE and stick to FUT, graft survival I think?

The 1,2,3 options, I really don't know, I mean you can't argue with the numbers, I just look at the results on the results section of this site and divide the number of total hairs by grafts, sometimes it shows the breakdown too. There is always a ton of single hairs extracted, the moment you extract 1 single hair then you have to extract 1 x 3 hair graft to keep at the avg of 2 hair grafts. I think the problem lies when people have fewer 3 hair grafts than normal. There is definitely something in that!

You could also argue that because of the fascination of scarless, surgeons are trying harder than ever, using different size needles to extract the grafts depending on how big the graft is. Maybe transection rate is higher when being too cute. Just guess work mate.

TBH, I'd rather have a FUT than a FUE and get HST in the scar. If I had shit loads of donor hair that is what I would do.

The surgeon that suggested 2000 FU's, didn't speculate how many hairs that would equate too, but I honestly don't believe I would get over 4000 hairs. Maybe they think if they cherry pick all the 2 hair grafts then it will only leave 1 hair grafts in the donor and it will look like shit. You have also said yourself or possibly didi in the past that one good thing about having short hair and hasci implanting small grafts like they do, is it gives the appearance of having more hair.

I've highlighted that comment above, because after I wrote it, I just knew that it makes perfect sense. It's all about balance right? You want to extract singles for the hairline as well as doubles, so I think when it comes to FUE it's done deliberately taking singles not only to give a more natural smooth hairline appearance, but to lessen the depletion in the donor, especially someone like me.