HASCI - Think I am going to go in for April

[DLB550]

Hi Guys,

I posted a couple of months back just introducing myself and asking about HASCI, and since then I am getting close to actually going for an HST with them in April this year at a cost of £7050.

Before I make the transfer I wondered if any of you guys on here have any final advice, cautions, alternatives? If you look for my other posts you can see my pictures of how my hair is at the moment.

I figure somewhere in the region of 3 sessions and approx 3.5-4k grafts should actually give me a decent result as it seems that my hair loss has slowed dramatically since around 2009 and is quite stable. (I looked at my driving license picture from then)

Although this will cost me in the region of £20k total over probably 2.5 years I think it's probably a good investment in myself overall.

Anyway what do you guys all think? Am I being realistic, stupid? Should I look at FUE, if so where in London? should I wait?

Cheers guys,

David

[Arashi]

Well, to make your decision, keep in mind that

1) HASCI transplants about 1.35 hair/graft, which is about half of what the average hair/graft is. Thus, you'll get only half of the hair compared to other clinics, effectively making the price 2x higher (apart from the price different that there already is) and you'll need to go at least 2x for a somewhat decent result. You're talking about £7050, so you should compare roughly £14.000 to the price of a FUE with the same amount of grafts. Also keep in mind that you'll therefore need at least a year more time, to get the same results
2) Regrowth: it's still unclear if it really happens and if so, how much. Currently not a lot of people believe anymore that it's really 80%, I think the only guy on this forums who still seems to think that is Ironman. The other opinions seem to vary between 0% and 40%.
3) Aeshetics. At least my aesthetic result was very poor. Angles were placed incorrect and my doctor did a bad job mixing hairs from the different regions of the scalp. So be sure to pick a (hasci) doctor you've seen good aesthetic results from.
4) Scarring. This actually would be THE reason to even consider HASCI at the moment. It's indeed scarless. The only other technique that's scarless too is Pilofocus but it's not being sold yet.

Good luck with your decision !

[gc83uk]

Hi Guys,

I posted a couple of months back just introducing myself and asking about HASCI, and since then I am getting close to actually going for an HST with them in April this year at a cost of £7050.

Before I make the transfer I wondered if any of you guys on here have any final advice, cautions, alternatives? If you look for my other posts you can see my pictures of how my hair is at the moment.

I figure somewhere in the region of 3 sessions and approx 3.5-4k grafts should actually give me a decent result as it seems that my hair loss has slowed dramatically since around 2009 and is quite stable. (I looked at my driving license picture from then)

Although this will cost me in the region of £20k total over probably 2.5 years I think it's probably a good investment in myself overall.

Anyway what do you guys all think? Am I being realistic, stupid? Should I look at FUE, if so where in London? should I wait?

Cheers guys,

David

I'll chip in on this....

The result in the recipient area on the 1st HST you have will be thin, be prepared for that! 1.35 hairs per graft on average.
vs
FUE: you can expect around 1.8 to 2.2 hairs per graft, anything higher is actually quite unusual.

If you go down the route of HST, you need to get out of your head about the regen rate in the donor, originally claimed to be 85% from Hasci, the net gain of hair overall on your head is much more important. Arashi thinks regrowth is around 0 - 40%, perhaps. However after numerous calculations after having 4 HSTs, I've come to the conclusion that you can expect a 20% NET increase in hair on your head. Lets say they extract 3000 hairs (not grafts), you should expect 3600 hairs regrowth.
vs
FUE: It's safe to say with FUE you will have a -10% to -20% number of hairs on your head. So again 3000 hairs extracted, you'll probably end up with around 2500ish.

Scarring, what scarring?

Expensive, yes!

[DLB550]

Hi Arashi,

Thanks for your response.

Hmmm ok so this gets more confusing. Is it proved that HASCI only get 1.35 hairs per FU?

I just checked on Ziering website for an idea and for around 2500 grafts they want approx £11.5k, so overall this is less than HASCI but too much for me at the moment with one operation. Also I would potentially have scarring from the operation in the donor area and absolutely no regrowth in the donor.

What's the main reasons for the doubts in regrowth numbers?

So the only real reason to use HASCI is the scarless procedure?

Gaz would you want to weigh in at all?

Thanks everyone,

[DLB550]

Hey Gaz,

I am not sure which post you will see from me first, these will probably both pop up at the same time, I was just asking for your opinion in my response to Arashi.

Ok so overall I would gain hair compared to an FUE procedure and It's scarless so if I shave my head as I do now people wouldn't be able to tell in the future, that's obviously a positive.

I thought if I get the first one I would potentially keep shaving my head on a #4 or let some of it grow again but keep it fairly short still which I think always kind of makes it look like I have more hair than I have.

The most annoying section is a patch right at the front of my head which is almost like a snakes tongue and that is what I want filled in!

Hmmmm ok so another view to digest.

Do you have a recent picture of you Gaz, so I can see how you are doing, how far post op are you now from HST #4?

Thanks guys.

[DLB550]

Oh and the person completing my ops would be Deborah Smaal, at least that is who I am talking to at HASCI.

[534623]

If you go down the route of HST, you need to get out of your head about the regen rate in the donor, originally claimed to be 85% from Hasci, the net gain of hair overall on your head is much more important. Arashi thinks regrowth is around 0 - 40%, perhaps.

All calculations and numbers are based on - what exactly?

Right, it's ALL ABOUT your personal case and your personal case is in many ways an exceptional case. If the whole medical world would draw conclusions just due to "a" case ...hallelujah!

I mean, seriously, you guys "think" that simply such numbers ...

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showpost.php?p=104190&postcount=12

... count for each and every HST patient out there?? Pffffft....

Without knowing your personal data - you know actually a shyt. Otherwise guys like "Arashi" would be able to give FACTS his laywer, what he simply can't.

"Good data" doesn't mean YOU will also get "good data" and "bad data" doesn't mean that YOU will also get "bad data".

What's so difficult to understand?

I mean, the whole ridiculous "donor regeneration rate" debate recently is just based on hot air and "a" vague documented patient case. Oh, and please guys:

Try to be a little bit more specific when it comes to "regeneration/growth rate" versus "hair multiplication rate", because there is a BIG difference between these terms. So when somebody is always talking about "regeneration or regrowth rate" you will always hear a simple percentage: ~80%
If someone is talking about a "hair multiplication rate", as Dr. Gho defined it within his HST study, that's a completely different story to talk about.

@gc, concerning "hair multiplication rate", my personal data, for example, show a completely different story than yours. But sorry, JJJJrS is not interested to know and to publish my personal "hair multiplication" data, because other data than your data do not exist and cannot exist on this planet at all ...

[gc83uk]

All calculations and numbers are based on - what exactly?

Right, it's ALL ABOUT your personal case and your personal case is in many ways an exceptional case. If the whole medical world would draw conclusions just due to "a" case ...hallelujah!

I mean, seriously, you guys "think" that simply such numbers ...

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showpost.php?p=104190&postcount=12

... count for each and every HST patient out there?? Pffffft....

Without knowing your personal data - you know actually a shyt. Otherwise guys like "Arashi" would be able to give FACTS his laywer, what he simply can't.

"Good data" doesn't mean YOU will also get "good data" and "bad data" doesn't mean that YOU will also get "bad data".

What's so difficult to understand?

I mean, the whole ridiculous "donor regeneration rate" debate recently is just based on hot air and "a" vague documented patient case. Oh, and please guys:

Try to be a little bit more specific when it comes to "regeneration/growth rate" versus "hair multiplication rate", because there is a BIG difference between these terms. So when somebody is always talking about "regeneration or regrowth rate" you will always hear a simple percentage: ~80%
If someone is talking about a "hair multiplication rate", as Dr. Gho defined it within his HST study, that's a completely different story to talk about.

@gc, concerning "hair multiplication rate", my personal data, for example, show a completely different story than yours. But sorry, JJJJrS is not interested to know and to publish my personal "hair multiplication" data, because other data than your data do not exist and cannot exist on this planet at all ...

I'm of course basing all my information on my own experience which is an exceptional case. That I should have added, as for you Iron Man, I suspect your results are better than mine from what you're saying. I guess JJJrS just cba with it anymore.

I would love to hear you give an estimate of what your "NET hair gain" percentage is? It's almost impossible to work out unless the procedure is relatively small, however the slick area of scalp made it easier for me to come to the 20% figure.

I personally think 20% net gain is impressive, especially when comparing to FUE being around -15% approx. That's a 40% improvement over FUE.

Just to re-iterate what I said before, who cares what the regrowth rate of the donor is when it's the net growth of hair on your head that matters. You can have 100% regrowth in the donor and not grow a single strand on your recipient.

[Arashi]

Hi Arashi,

Thanks for your response.

Hmmm ok so this gets more confusing. Is it proved that HASCI only get 1.35 hairs per FU?

Yeah from the several cases we've seen here (james bald, mine, c5000, gc83uk and Irongirl), we've all results between 1.2 and 1.4 hair/graft.

What's the main reasons for the doubts in regrowth numbers?

1) HASCI advises standard a max of 3 HST's (and then analyses if they can continue), while if 80% regeneration were true, the *average* person could go 27 times and his donor would still look untouched. People with good donor would be able to go even much more often than that. Yet, they advise a max of 3 times and then see if people can continue after that. That's such a difference from 27 times that it doesn't make any sense at all.
2) They even advise people with GOOD donor (their own words) to not increase the density on the temples above 30 grafts/cm2, which isnt anywhere near enough to look natural, because according to them, a donor simply doesnt contain enough hair for that. If 80% regen was true, there would be WAY more than enough hair to get a NW7 to NW1 with over 60 grafts/cm2 !
3) We've never seen anyone who went more than 4 times to HASCI
4) After analysing gc83uk's case it looked like his regrowth was in the 0-38% range and could very well be 0.
5) They did 2 times a 50 graft tests, first time they shot horrible photo's, so the test could never be completed. After we complained, they did another test and AGAIN shot horrible photo's. I dont think this could be an incident, nobody is THAT stupid, not 2 times in a row.
6) NOBODY could ever reproduce what HASCI claims to do.
7) The text in their patent is very weird, containing totally unlogical points
8) Yet to be seen, but I really think they're going to deny 50 graft tests, even if you offer them 1000 euro for it. In fact, they denied such tests in the past, although I'm not sure if previous patients offered money for it.
9) If we look at petri dish photo's, even in the 1 graft section you'll almost never see a graft with just one hair. They're all 2-3 hairs. So, they transect one hair and cut one out. leaving 1 behind in donor and yielding one in recipient: which is just splitting of grafts.

I'm sure there's more but this is from the top of my head. In fact, NOTHING adds up regarding HASCI ...

[Arashi]

I personally think 20% net gain is impressive, especially when comparing to FUE being around -15% approx. That's a 40% improvement over FUE.

If they could prove 20% regrowth and market it accordingly (scarless + 20% regrowth), everybody would be happy. It would be the best alternative currently available and nobody would feel like they got scammed. However unfortunately that's not the reality.

[gc83uk]

If they could prove 20% regrowth and market it accordingly (scarless + 20% regrowth), everybody would be happy. It would be the best alternative currently available and nobody would feel like they got scammed. However unfortunately that's not the reality.

IMO they won't want to admit to such a low figure, even if we believe it to be a +ve.

BTW I'm not saying it's 20% regrowth in the donor, you know what I mean don't ya?

[ss1980]

15% would be better than 0 but prices need to be dropped since Its rip off as of now and market it accordingly... EVen if they split hair as I think they do ..

[gc83uk]

15% would be better than 0 but prices need to be dropped since Its rip off as of now and market it accordingly... EVen if they split hair as I think they do ..

I don't think you can put a price on a scarless procedure.

[baldymcgee]

Whatever happened to Scissorboy's offer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tWm4qAj-9Q

(jump to around 3:30)

He had a procedure done with Dr. Gho and offered to shave his donor area to prove that regeneration was taking place. He does ask for a proper procedure (overseen, understandably, by 1 or 2 physicians).

Did anyone take him up on his offer? If not, why?

There are lots of docs investigating regeneration (Ziering and Wesley off the top of my head, but there are many more) so it'd be really interesting to see if there's anything to this.

[cocacola]

Hey gc!

Do you think you will post an update with maybe some pics anytime soon. With all this uncertainty, your case is the most we have on hasci. Would be great to see how ur donor and recipient are doing.

Cheers!