-
-
If your "whole point" were true - such threads wouldn't exist, because even NW-10s out there wouldn't have a problem anymore with any "lack of donor hair" or "hair loss" in general to get a pretty good coverage with healthy terminal hair.
And even if such guys indeed get it with normal hair transplants - the game would be definitely over for them. Is the game over for gc?
According to gc's current donor area pics - definitely NO! Not just in theory, gc could still get further 4000-5000 HST grafts from his donor - without any doubts, because there is still A PLENTY of usable grafts left across the whole donor area!
Just send gc's CURRENT donor area pics to HT docs of your choice around the globe and ask them, how much normal grafts they estimate they can get out of "your" donor....
Without any doubts and in advance - most of them will tell you the same number which they told gc BEFORE having any hair transplants at all!Comment
-
You've made your point quite a few times now, so let's discuss it...
I on the other hand could quite easily argue that assuming the main bald area is 100cm2 and there are 4600 HST grafts in there. I clearly counted 50 grafts earlier, there is about 23 or 24 2 hair grafts, 23 definites, which gives about 73 hairs. 1.46 per graft.
Now I'm not saying that I have 50 grafts in each of the 100cm's on my head because come on that is impossible right because I have only had 4600 grafts in this area, but I think it's safe to say that all 4600 or close to it have taken and are growing or will grow. I've also shed quite a few recently, so this isn't the complete result yet.
This is one of the positives with HST in my opinion, most if not all the grafts take, which is probably down to not using saline solution.
I always wondered why Hassan and Wong etc don't do FUE, but when reading from physicians on our very own TBT forum (just checked) they all seem to say the same thing in that it's not uncommon that FUE will yield around 80% and FUT 95%+
I don't know how one would go about checking those grim 80% FUE figures out, I also don't know if there have been any hair counting studies on FUE which we can see online, so I'll take this 80% figure as somewhere close to the truth, until someone can prove me otherwise.
Also from memory a typical hair shaft is around 0.42mm, therefore 2 hair FUE you would need to be using around a 0.9mm punch to get these out, no? I have also read that you can get 2 hair grafts out using 0.75mm punches,
but the extraction has to be perfect, not likely every time!
So saying the average fue graft is 2.5 hairs might be correct, but you'd have to vary punch sizes to get e.g 3 hair grafts out of the donor. Not sure I'd fancy any 1mm punch holes in my head, they would definitely be much more difficult to conceal using Acell etc, not a risk I would even consider.
I'll post some random and I do mean random results from TBT surgery section where clinics seem to 'show off' their best cases, only those which show the breakdown of grafts mind you, they seem more trusting.
FUE result, Rahal:
2205 grafts
450 single grafts,
1081 double grafts,
674 triple grafts, for a total of 4634 hairs.
Average hair per graft = 2.10
Jerry Cooley FUT
1,353 grafts (1-366, 2-653, 3-334; total hairs = 2,674).
Average = 1.976 hairs per graft
Ron Shapiro - FUE - 1839gr/3399 hairs
Avererage hair per graft = 1.84
Dr Bisanga
1s- 591
2s- 1037
3s- 1200
4s- 96
Awesome result btw
Total: 2924
Number of hairs I think is 6647
Average is 2.27
Dorin 2816 grafts
The grafts consisted of 802 singles, 1827 doubles, and 187 threes - a total of 5017 hairs.
Average is 1.78
I was actually surprised by these results, I was expecting consistently that they could get around 2.5 hairs per graft. I reckon some surgeons can do it, but it seems like the average patient is getting less than 2, even the Rahal patient above is only 2.10.
I don't have 4 hair grafts and certainly not many 3 hair grafts, so I would really struggle to have an FUE with an average hair count above 2 hairs. It seems like all FUE surgeons extract a certain amount of singles and that is always going to bring down the average. If they did that with me then I'd do well to get 1.5 hairs per graft lol.
So to summarise the FUE comparisons which have been brought to my attention, it would seem that if I had 4600 grafts extracted probably around 80% would grow giving me maybe 3600 grafts in my recipient if I'm lucky.
If I'm really lucky I would get about 1.8 hairs per graft by doing FUE (better than FUT Dorin), which would give me about 6400 hairs from 4600 extractions.
Now seeing as I counted 1.46 hairs in that random 1cm2 area already, if you were to multiply this by the number of grafts I had 4600 (in scarred area) then that would give 6716 hairs.
I'm not even 10 months since my 3rd HST yet and only 1 months since my 4th HST, so it doesn't seem so bad afterall, especially compared to these FUE results.
I will also add here, that it's very easy to twist results to suit ones agenda, saying things like, you've had 5000 HST grafts therefore you have 5000 hairs is just pure BS.Comment
-
Hi Didi,
Check out this picture especially for you
Comment
-
Hopefully this will help to clarify, there is much more behind this photo that what you initially thought, also the change in hair direction can be seen on the other photos, it all makes sense when you see these:
Look for the red spot in photo 1 and 2 and then compare it to photo 3:
Photo 1
Photo 2
Photo 3
There is another 5cm - 7cm behind that red spot.
I really don't know what else I can show you.Comment
-
Gaz, first of all, like I said earlier, if you mark an area for 1 cm2, you should only count hairs that *originate* in that area. You also counted hairs that originated in other area's. Secondly, you counted in an area that was clearly a lot denser than the rest of your scalp.
I counted 4 random area's. It's quite easy to do cause you've put that ruler against your head in several photo's, that was very helpful. What you do is you create a 1 cm line in paint, drag it, then flip it 90 degrees. Do that twice. Then do it twice without flipping and you have the perfect lines of 1 cm2 square. Of course you'll have to stay close to the ruler because of the angle. Now count the hairs. I did that 4 times, in 4 random areas', none of them came above 50 *hairs* per square cm. I've got these *hairs* per cm2:
45
45
48
50.
I really did this random, I didn't 'select the beginning and end of the squares. If you carefully do that, then you can get higher numbers of course, but that's not fair, cause the neighbouring area's will have lower numbers. And the same way I could get to area's with numbers lower than these. But again, I really did this without selecting.
Anyway, claiming you have an average of 50 *grafts* and then also saying you have like 1.46 hairs/graft is really not a correct picture. You're much closer to 50 hairs/cm2 and that correlates to about 20 grafts/cm2. You said that some clinics don't get to that 2.5 either and I believe that right away. But when people are saying that you need 30 grafts/cm2 to be able to give the illusion of a scalp full of hair, they're really talking about 75 hairs/cm2 (you do know that on average a graft has 2.5 hairs). And that makes sense man. Do you think you have enough hair right now to create the illusion of a full scalp of hair ? According to my calculations you'd need 50% more hair. And that seems like it makes sense doesn't it ? To me it does.Comment
-
What you're forgetting is that they have purposely gone denser around the edges, so counting bang in the middle isn't going to give an overall accurate impression.
What I'm saying to you is relax with the you've got 5000 hairs statement, that is completely untrue.
How about you take a look at all those images I've since posted, does that now clarify the area is bigger than you thought yesterday?Comment
-
How many grafts did they give you ? I think you said 4900 right ?Comment
-
4900, if you're going to use that figure then consider the overall area approx 115cm2
If you're going with 4600 which are placed in the center and edges of scarred area then go with 100cm2
Those 300 were very lightly placed in my hairline I would have to say.
Before we get into more detail on this, what about the red spot photos, have you seen them?Comment
Tweet
Comment