Dr Nigam agrees to doubling slick NW6/NW7

[UK_]

Money transfers, new cameras, rewards yadda yadda yadda

I'm sitting on the fence!

You have to ask yourself if you were Nigam why ask Mwamba over to India if you're not confident in your own procedure? You'd have to be stupid!

I think Dr Nigam should make a promise to himself to never upload photos of this kind of quality. I don't think he has any bad intentions, perhaps just naive and/or too busy to care.

Maybe he feels that no matter how great or superior the camera or pictures are, people are always going to be unconvinced! There's no point in talking to death the idea of Dr Nigam buying a better camera or transferring money here and there - the simple solution is to replicate exactly what Dr Nigam is doing in his lab by a IAHRS doctor in a completely different lab, if the results can be reproduced in a different environment then we know the procedure works.

This is exactly why Dr Mwamba has become involved, we will know when Dr Mwamba has understood and performed the procedure himself in his own clinic and confirmed the findings, Dr Nigam will then be admitted to the IAHRS and we will have donor doubling as a mainstream treatment.

[didi]

Also guys, Dr Nigams will bring me in contact with Thane. The thing I saw as difficult in the whole process was the part of the money transfer. Using a notary, escrow etc, it's all complicated and I guess it's going to be costly too. And when should the notary release the money ? So I just thought of a much better idea: if Thane agrees, I'll ask Spencer if he wants to be the 'notary' here I'll wire the $10,000 to Spencer right after Thane agrees. And then Spencer can be the judge here and see if he just should release the money back to me (in case Nigams failed to get Thane 15k grafts @ 2.5 hair/graft) or to Thane (in case Nigams did what he claims he'll do). Pretty frikkin' awesome idea, right ?

Sounds good, Spencer will be third party holding money. Get in touch with Thane via Skype to make sure its him and make him an offer, he would be crazy to refuse it.

Does money go to Thane or Nigam or 50:50(if they win)?

[HairBane]

also guys, dr nigams will bring me in contact with thane. The thing i saw as difficult in the whole process was the part of the money transfer. Using a notary, escrow etc, it's all complicated and i guess it's going to be costly too. And when should the notary release the money ? So i just thought of a much better idea: If thane agrees, i'll ask spencer if he wants to be the 'notary' here i'll wire the $10,000 to spencer right after thane agrees. And then spencer can be the judge here and see if he just should release the money back to me (in case nigams failed to get thane 15k grafts @ 2.5 hair/graft) or to thane (in case nigams did what he claims he'll do). Pretty frikkin' awesome idea, right ? :d

yes

[Arashi]

Sounds good, Spencer will be third party holding money. Get in touch with Thane via Skype to make sure its him and make him an offer, he would be crazy to refuse it.

Does money go to Thane or Nigam or 50:50(if they win)?

This is purely meant to motivate Thane to not 'disappear' as Nigams has put it. So it will go to Thane. I know I also talked about a condition where Nigams had to pay me something when he failed; I'll let that go. This will then be something purely between me and Thane, with Spencer as the referee

[Arashi]

Maybe he feels that no matter how great or superior the camera or pictures are, people are always going to be unconvinced! There's no point in talking to death the idea of Dr Nigam buying a better camera or transferring money here and there - the simple solution is to replicate exactly what Dr Nigam is doing in his lab by a IAHRS doctor in a completely different lab, if the results can be reproduced in a different environment then we know the procedure works.

This is exactly why Dr Mwamba has become involved, we will know when Dr Mwamba has understood and performed the procedure himself in his own clinic and confirmed the findings, Dr Nigam will then be admitted to the IAHRS and we will have donor doubling as a mainstream treatment.

It's great for sure that Mwamba is now involved. However, like Spencer noted, it might take a year before Mwamba even knows if works or not. And I'm pretty sure he wont release any interim updates. There's the possibility that even after a year he still can't tell for sure it works. And even if he's gotten a good result: it will still be his word ! Maybe he can document a 50 graft test, and that would be extremely interesting. But converting a NW7 with horrible donor, to somebody with a scalp full of hair, a case which we can follow here with interim updates .. Man that's really the best evidence we can get !

Besides, I'm a man of my word, I already promised it to Thane here on this board, I won't pull that offer.

[crafter]

nothing will come of this.

[HairBane]

Would you have any specific rules Arashi? Can Nigam use beard hair, or does he have have to use the hair from Thane's head? Is Nigam allowed to use hair multiplication too? Are you just letting him do whatever he can to produce the best results?

[Arashi]

Would you have any specific rules Arashi? Can Nigam use beard hair, or does he have have to use the hair from Thane's head? Is Nigam allowed to use hair multiplication too? Are you just letting him do whatever he can to produce the best results?

Yeah he can do whatever he wants to. All I want to see is 15k grafts * 2.5 hairs/graft = 37.500 new hairs on Thane's scalp, as long as it's real hair and not bio-fibres, lol. And of course donor density shouldn't have suffered too much (eg he can't just simply move all hair to recipient, he claims 100% regen, so donor should seem more or less the same)

Of course I'm not going to count them all, just need to monitor a few random patches on his scalp to confirm that density. I'll then let Spencer be the judge and if he thinks the result is close enough to that, he can send out the money to Thane. If Spencer would agree to participating of course. And I'd want to see Thane in person to check the result and shoot some pics.

Sounds like an interesting challenge, right ?

And regarding the beard hair: yeah he can use that as a source for cells. However the resulting hair should be regular head hair, not beard hair of course.

[Arashi]

Does anyone have Dr Nigams his email ? I asked him for that on that other forum but he hasn't replied yet.

[garethbale]

Does anyone have Dr Nigams his email ? I asked him for that on that other forum but he hasn't replied yet.

dr.rahul1970@gmail.com

[Arashi]

dr.rahul1970@gmail.com

Thanks ! Just mailed him.

[JJJJrS]

By Dr Nigam from HS:

[div][postedby]Originally Posted by drnigam[/postedby]

2) day 1 - (5th November 2013) ,day 2 (6th November ), day 3 ( 7th November ), day 4 ( 8th November )
On day 1 to day 4 we intend to extract 80- 90 % of his donor hair .
Do an in-vitro doubling , where in we bisect the follicle under magnification and implant one bisected part and the recipient and the other at the donor scalp .
At the same time , we will inject growth factors , multiply progenitor stem cells , 3D spheroidal multiplied dermal papilla cells , extra cellular matrix and concentrated PRP .[/div]

It sounds pretty traumatic, to extract 80-90% of the donor area of a NW7... But if Dr. Nigam can do that, you basically have the test right there.

All he has to do is take clear pictures which:
a) show the donor and recipient prior to extraction. There should be no doubt about the extent of the patients hair loss.
b) pictures of the donor right after extraction. This should prove that the majority of the patient's donor has been extracted and implanted into the recipient.
c) pictures of the donor and recipient in the months after. These should show clear regrowth in the donor and growth in the recipient.

A test like this would speak for itself and be almost impossible to fake too.

[One]

It sounds pretty traumatic, to extract 80-90% of the donor area of a NW7... But if Dr. Nigam can do that, you basically have the test right there.

All he has to do is take clear pictures which:
a) show the donor and recipient prior to extraction. There should be no doubt about the extent of the patients hair loss.
b) pictures of the donor right after extraction. This should prove that the majority of the patient's donor has been extracted and implanted into the recipient.
c) pictures of the donor and recipient in the months after. These should show clear regrowth in the donor and growth in the recipient.

A test like this would speak for itself and be almost impossible to fake too.

I agree.

Will be interesting to see how the donor area after removing almost all of the hair.
Let's see how it goes.

As for the photos, Dr. Nigam's always wrong He does too blurry photos, or photos with tight composition, photo or too far, or pictures with light / angle / length hair clearly mixed.

He must understand how to make the photos once and for all beginning to use a professional camera, otherwise we can not understand anything!

Ps: Someone in the forum could find or scirvere a small photo guide with the basic rules to make a good photo-report?

[gc83uk]

Arashi, let me make a suggestion.

I love this 10k idea, but you could also or instead of do the following:
Fly out there yourself and take the photos, which I don't think you're that keen on doing from memory.

But how about you hire a photographer to go over to India and take the photos to the standard we all would like to see. It wouldn't cost anywhere near $10,000. I wonder if Hellouser would offer his services.

Your criteria was spot on and difficult to find:
1) someone who obviously knows how to take the perfect photo
2) someone who knows all about hair transplants, doubling etc a rare combination!

[JJJJrS]

As for the photos, Dr. Nigam's always wrong Or does too blurry photos, or photos with tight composition, photo or too far, or pictures with light / angle / length hair clearly mixed.

He must understand how to make the photos once and for all beginning to use a professional camera, otherwise we can not understand anything!

Ps: Someone in the forum could find or scirvere a small photo guide with the basic rules to make a good photo-report?

In this case, as long as he has a reasonable camera, it really shouldn't be hard to take the pictures. We don't even need to count hairs or anything like that. As long as the photos are sharp, consistent and taken with good lighting, they should be perfectly fine.

But the point does need to be stressed. Dr. Nigam, we need clear, consistent photos!