a second HST session in september

[greatjob!]

Did you notice that baldies very of mention (after having a consultation with a normal hair transplant doctor) and say "They told me that most of my FU's (follicular units) in my donor area are just singles."

Generally speaking, the multi-FU story and/or the "more hair for your buck"-story, has always been nothing more than an overhyped story among HT clinics to fool layman.

Everything you wrote here is pretty much false. Sure there are people with a low hair/fu ratio, but most people have more doubles/triple hairs than they do singles. I had a previous transplant and I had 578 singles, 1926 doubles, and 836 triples giving me a graft to hair ratio of 2.08 hairs/graft.

They claim the average hair/fu ratio is around 2.5 hairs/fu, however I believe it is closer to 2 hairs/fu. If what you are saying that "most of my fu's in my donor area are just singles" was true than the hair/fu ratio would be very close to 1 hair/fu, which is what it seems to be with Dr. Gho's work. Which means he is primarily moving single hairs. So again I wonder why he is transplanting only singles if he can transplant multi hair fu's, since you cannot argue that more hairs gives more coverage.

I'm not trying to argue, I'm just trying to understand why you would choose to transplant only singles if you could transplant doubles and triples that's all, so please don't take a rude or condescending tone like you usually do. If there is something I'm missing like the needles he uses are too small and he takes that trade off of moving less hair to ensure no scarring then I can understand that.

[534623]

I'm just trying to understand the logic behind moving less hair to the recipient area when you are capable of moving more.

Oh, that's a topic I like so much ...

Anyway, let's try together to define "more"; for example:

Did you notice that baldies very of mention (after having a consultation with a normal hair transplant doctor) and say "They told me that most of my FU's (follicular units) in my donor area are just singles."

Generally speaking, the multi-FU story and/or the "more hair for your buck"-story, has always been nothing more than an overhyped story among HT clinics to fool layman. And even those patients who have indeed lots of multis in their donor area ...

1) most of these multis are not even suitable for harvestation (follicles too far apart) - not even with normal FUE.

2) multis are rather prone to become singles (again, because as a fetus, you start with SINGLES which just divide over time/after birth and become finally "FUs") anyhow over time (due to aging aka "senescent alopecia" etc);

By the way ...


1) Who has more follicles within his scalp? Daddy or junior?
Both around the same amount of follicles?

2) When in a natural way the head in general, as well as the SCALP size increases over time - where do the additional follicles/hairs come from to fill up the step-by-step increased scalp area?

lol

[greatjob!]

No, that's not a valid conclusion. They just seem to transplant mainly single hair grafts. That doesn't necessarily have to mean that they just split grafts. We'll just have to wait until gc83uk is going to document his procedure, september this year. That will finally yield the data we're still looking for.

The reason I make that conclusion is because I don't understand why a doctor would choose to only transplant single hair follicles when they can transplant multiple hair grafts, it doesn't make sense to me because multi-hair grafts= better/more hair. Maybe there is something I don't know about like you said needle size. I'm not trying to take digs at your or anyone else's procedure or Dr. Gho, I'm just trying to understand the logic behind moving less hair to the recipient area when you are capable of moving more.

[Arashi]

I'm not trying to stir up the debate again, since it has been beaten to death. I'm just trying to understand how, if he is getting 1hair for 1hair, the hair to graft ratio is so low in the recipient area. Is this because they are not able to transplant anything higher than 2 hair grafts? Like they are not able to move 3 hair grafts?

They CAN transplant 3 hair grafts. In fact I do see a few in my own recipient and we saw a few in their 50 graft tests. But they mainly seem to do singles. Most probably because their needle size is so small.

[Arashi]

So from this information then Dr. Gho is not really getting true regeneration(ie. taking two follicles from the donor and putting two in the recipient while still leaving two follicles in the donor) he is just splitting hairs, right?

No, that's not a valid conclusion. They just seem to transplant mainly single hair grafts. That doesn't necessarily have to mean that they just split grafts. We'll just have to wait until gc83uk is going to document his procedure, september this year. That will finally yield the data we're still looking for.

[greatjob!]

he said in his very official interview with spencer that two hairs taken from donor = two hairs in recipient and two hairs back in donor.

But forum specialists contested that and none of them buys it!!!

They also very officialy claim 80-85% regeneration, but again, here in the bald truth forum, they found out that it's less then 50


:-)

I'm not trying to stir up the debate again, since it has been beaten to death. I'm just trying to understand how, if he is getting 1hair for 1hair, the hair to graft ratio is so low in the recipient area. Is this because they are not able to transplant anything higher than 2 hair grafts? Like they are not able to move 3 hair grafts?

[caddarik79]

he said in his very official interview with spencer that two hairs taken from donor = two hairs in recipient and two hairs back in donor.

But forum specialists contested that and none of them buys it!!!

They also very officialy claim 80-85% regeneration, but again, here in the bald truth forum, they found out that it's less then 50


:-)

[greatjob!]

Might be even less. From the 2 50-grafts tests, and also by looking at my own results, I get the idea that the average hair/graft is about 1.3 at HASCI, while 2.5 is the average in humans in general. So it might very well be that 11.500 hst graft equals about 6000 FUE graft.

So from this information then Dr. Gho is not really getting true regeneration(ie. taking two follicles from the donor and putting two in the recipient while still leaving two follicles in the donor) he is just splitting hairs, right?

[caddarik79]

if mwamba and nigam bring a real hair doubling with 100% regen, it might be a total game changer!!!

Just afraid of the price policy of mwamba who is already f*ckin expensive!!!

[Arashi]

so Arashi, you are about to reach or you have reached your final result!!

disappointed?

I'm not disappointed I did this. My hair looks a lot better right now, so I'm really happy I did it. However, I must confess I did expect a bit more density. If I had to take a wild guess, based on my post-op photo's and the current situation, I'd say about 80% of the grafts in recipient grew. Maybe a bit more. And since I'm at month 8 now, I can and should still expect a bit more to come. I'll do an analysis of my temples when I'm at 12 months. I think it will probably end up above the 90% mark, which seems to be pretty standard for FUE nowadays.

I think the main reason that it's a bit thinner than I had hoped is that HASCI seems to mainly transplant single hair grafts

So, would I do it again if I could turn back time ? Definitely !! And I would also again do it at HASCI, if only for the scarless aspect. But again, I had also hoped for a bit better result.

[didi]

Might be even less. From the 2 50-grafts tests, and also by looking at my own results, I get the idea that the average hair/graft is about 1.3 at HASCI, while 2.5 is the average in humans in general. So it might very well be that 11.500 hst graft equals about 6000 FUE graft.

True , I was very generous when I said 7000 but anyway these numbers are big turn off,

You need 7 years to get 6000 real grafts, if you lucky to have enough $$, patience and donor hair

My guess is most guys simply give up after few procedures

[hellouser]

Might be even less. From the 2 50-grafts tests, and also by looking at my own results, I get the idea that the average hair/graft is about 1.3 at HASCI, while 2.5 is the average in humans in general. So it might very well be that 11.500 hst graft equals about 6000 FUE graft.

Right around the average maximum number of donor hair an individual has. So really, doesn't look like a great benefit.

[caddarik79]

so Arashi, you are about to reach or you have reached your final result!!

disappointed?

[Arashi]

11500 hst grafts equals 7000 FUE/FUT grafts , number of hairs is more important than number of grafts, H&W does it all the time, 7000 grafts is nowhere near enough to give high NW full head of hair, illusion at best

even if this '11500' case is true its not impressive at all and that's the best case they got after 8 years of doubling

Might be even less. From the 2 50-grafts tests, and also by looking at my own results, I get the idea that the average hair/graft is about 1.3 at HASCI, while 2.5 is the average in humans in general. So it might very well be that 11.500 hst graft equals about 6000 FUE graft.

[greatjob!]

11500 hst grafts equals 7000 FUE/FUT grafts , number of hairs is more important than number of grafts, H&W does it all the time, 7000 grafts is not nowhere near enough to give high NW full head of hair, illusion at best

even if this '11500' case is true its not impressive at all and that's the best case they got after 8 years of doubling

True, but it would at least prove that they are able to perform a high graft count, high quality hair transplant, as of yet I have seen neither.