The 50 Graft Test Procedure

[Arashi]

JJJRS thinks 65% hairs regrow. That would mean James lost 154 in donor IF there are indeed 440 in petridish. If all hair in donor grows, we'll see 250 hairs there. 154 hairs sacrificied in donor, to achieve 250 in recipient. Hence 40% regrowth. That's been my point all along.

Sorry meant "If all hair in RECIPIENT grows" of course in the above.

[Arashi]

Ok, I've mailed Kristel. I asked her take on the difference between 250 usable hairs and the +/- 450 in the dish. Also asked her what she's expecting to see as regrowth here. Hopefully we'll know tomorrow (HASCI is closed of course by now).

[Arashi]

Ok, I finished counting, but it was quick & dirty. Best way to go ahead of course is to divide the petridish in sections and count hairs/section. I finished up pretty close to what I was expecting, but won't give the number yet, would love to hear what you guys came up with

[Arashi]

Well, I can give you my estimate already of course, I just don't want to influence your counting. My number might be off here. I'd need to count again and I know you guys (GC and JJJJRS) have much more patience than I have and are probably much more accurate, but I'd say there are about 430 hairs in the petridish in total (1's + 2's). Again, I'd need to count again and verify but this is my best estimate at the moment.

At this moment I'm expecting you guys to end somewhere in that 400-450 hairs zone as well. I'd say probably closer to 400 than 450, since I was quite 'generous' in counting. If my results differ too much from yours, I'll recount

[Arashi]

Already got a reply from Kristel. It seems she misunderstood what I'm saying, so I explained it again in other wording. Let's see what she says.

Anyway, good news is she said that they've been taking their own pictures as well, which are still to follow ! So we'll hopefully get better pictures for analysis.

[didi]

its common sense to assume that hasci expects 250 hairs not 400+..

i think there willl be about 200-220 hairs MAX in recipient, once they grow out
and there will be about 65% of hairs regenerated in recepient
65% of 250 hairs = 162...

162+220=382...I beleive thats close to total number of hairs in petri

Thats my prediction

[didi]

REAL doubling would be abt 400 in donor, 400 in recipient..800 total...

[gc83uk]

its common sense to assume that hasci expects 250 hairs not 400+..

i think there willl be about 200-220 hairs MAX in recipient, once they grow out
and there will be about 65% of hairs regenerated in recepient
65% of 250 hairs = 162...

162+220=382...I beleive thats close to total number of hairs in petri

Thats my prediction

I reckon that is fairly accurate! I pretty much said the same before TBH.

I think the other 150 hairs in the donor which were transected should also regrow, well I hope so anyway! Giving us 312 hairs regrowing in the donor out of the possible 400 originally extracted.

So as Arashi would put it your sacrificing just 80 odd hairs but getting 250 hairs in the recipient, still better than FUE by far, but definitely room for improvement.

[Arashi]

I reckon that is fairly accurate! I pretty much said the same before TBH.

I think the other 150 hairs in the donor which were transected should also regrow, well I hope so anyway! Giving us 312 hairs regrowing in the donor out of the possible 400 originally extracted.

So as Arashi would put it your sacrificing just 80 odd hairs but getting 250 hairs in the recipient, still better than FUE by far, but definitely room for improvement.

I got a bit hope that Kristel is coming up with a good explanation. She seemed very confident. Let's see what she says.

[didi]

and there will be about 65% of hairs regenerated in donor
65% of 250 hairs = 162...

Correction, I meant to say donor in my previous post...65% regeneration of hairs in donor area

[Arashi]

and there will be about 65% of hairs regenerated in donor
65% of 250 hairs = 162...

Correction, I meant to say donor in my previous post...65% regeneration of hairs in donor area

Still don't get what you're saying, but ok. I thought we all agreed that 400-ish hairs got extracted and not 250. So 65% of 400 would regenerate and not 65% of 250.

[didi]

I agree 400+ hairs got extracted and if hst is abt doubling then there would be 400 in donor and 400 hairs in recipient...but it wont happen

and you know why...

those grafts in '1' part of dish used to be 2 hair grafts in donor.....think abt it..

telogen theory goes out of window, as you only have 10-15% hairs in telogen stage

[gc83uk]

Still don't get what you're saying, but ok. I thought we all agreed that 400-ish hairs got extracted and not 250. So 65% of 400 would regenerate and not 65% of 250.

Its 65% of 250, because the other 150 which regrow is 100%.

So (250 * 0.65) + (150 * 1) = 312 hairs
312/400 = 78%

Right didi?

[didi]

it looks like there is no new hairs created...no net gain

[Arashi]

Its 65% of 250, because the other 150 which regrow is 100%.

So (250 * 0.65) + (150 * 1) = 312 hairs
312/400 = 78%

Right didi?

I think you're confusing things GC. Yes, according to HASCI the non extracted hair will regrow 100%. That also makes sense.

However, in his research JJJJRS didn't differentiate between transected hairs and extracted follicles. He simply concluded that about 65% of the hairs regrow. 65% of ALL hairs. Hence IF you're using HIS number (that 65%) you'll have to look at ALL hairs.