RepliCel Reports Progress on Shiseido Technology

[joachim]

Jesus... commercialization? So... they had positive results? What would be the point of building the facility if the results were no better than Aderans?

hellouser, isn't this the same news you posted on page 2, post no. 24?

[hellouser]

hellouser, isn't this the same news you posted on page 2, post no. 24?

Ah yes... theres so much info that I often forget, lol.

[nameless]

Jesus... commercialization? So... they had positive results? What would be the point of building the facility if the results were no better than Aderans?

I don't know Hellouser.

How could they have possibly had significantly better results than Aderans when researchers such as Jahoda and Christiano and Gerd and Lauster have not even figured out how to protect inductivity yet?

One thing I will say however is that since Dr. Aaron Gardner has indicated that some of the inductivity is inside the cells and some of the inductivity is inside the environment, this means that researchers do not necessarily need to preserve 100% of inductivity in cell culture since some of the inductivity is not even found in the cells. I think that Dr. Aaron Gardner said that scientists have achieved preservation of 40% inductivity in cells so that may be sufficient since for all we know the other 60% could be found inside the environment.

Now about the environment, that almost certainly includes adipose stem cells or some component thereof. And there is not even a working model yet for how to combine 3d culture of appropriate hair cells + adipose stem cells. Dr. Aaron Gardner says they are just now beginning testing that but can not say anything publicly about that yet. There is nobody who says anything publicly about it yet so Replicel and Shisheido can't possibly be using such complicated combination models like this yet.

I really don't think that either replicel or Shisheido are able to produce a breakthrough cell treatment yet. I think that it will be another year before researchers have cracked the code and until researchers crack the code I don't see how either Replicel or Aderans can commercialize a breakthrough cell treatment.

[hellouser]

I don't know Hellouser.

How could they have possibly had significantly better results than Aderans when researchers such as Jahoda and Christiano and Gerd and Lauster have not even figured out how to protect inductivity yet?

One thing I will say however is that since Dr. Aaron Gardner has indicated that some of the inductivity is inside the cells and some of the inductivity is inside the environment, this means that researchers do not necessarily need to preserve 100% of inductivity in cell culture since some of the inductivity is not even found in the cells. I think that Dr. Aaron Gardner said that scientists have achieved preservation of 40% inductivity in cells so that may be sufficient since for all we know the other 60% could be found inside the environment.

Now about the environment, that almost certainly includes adipose stem cells or some component thereof. And there is not even a working model yet for how to combine 3d culture of appropriate hair cells + adipose stem cells. Dr. Aaron Gardner says they are just now beginning testing that but can not say anything publicly about that yet. There is nobody who says anything publicly about it yet so Replicel and Shisheido can't possibly be using such complicated combination models like this yet.

I really don't think that either replicel or Shisheido are able to produce a breakthrough cell treatment yet. I think that it will be another year before researchers have cracked the code and until researchers crack the code I don't see how either Replicel or Aderans can commercialize a breakthrough cell treatment.

I think before we come to conclusions like this we should first find out if they're culturing the cells in 2D or 3D. If in 3D.... well then... good times may be ahead of us.

[PrettyFly83]

English version:

http://www.shiseidogroup.com/releimg/2289-e.pdf

[hellouser]

Latest interview with David Hall:

http://www.replicel.com/replicel-treating-functional-cellular-deficits-an-interview-with-ceo-david-hall/

This part is interesting:

We were interested in doing a geographic license for Japan and parts of Asia for three main reasons. The first was to have a third party validation of our science and technology which is always important to a start-up company. The second was to be partnered with a large company whom had the resources (both human and financial) to conduct their own clinical program which along with our program would more than double the data being collected as we work towards establishing our dosing and other protocols for the technology in humans. Thirdly, Shiseido has committed to cell therapy in a significant manner including having commissioned and now opened a purpose-built cell processing centre in Kobe Japan, in the heart of the country’s regenerative medicine initiative.

[joachim]

sounds good. and also the fact that studies/trials and some cell culturing stuff is done in western countries like germany and austria gives me a good feeling. tells me they are not messing around and have serious science behind it. in the interview they also talk about a new location in toronto... something for you hellouser =)

replicel sounds more and more promising, although at least 3 years away.

[hellouser]

Does anyone know if the cell culturing really takes 5-8 weeks?

[john2399]

Could this really be available in 3 years?

[hellouser]

*edit*

[hellouser]

Could this really be available in 3 years?

3.25 years... but yeah.... it looks like the deregulation will make that possible. See chart below:

[joely]

Could this really be available in 3 years?

I doubt that it will be available that soon, their phase 2 trial is just about to begin which is over three years, i know they now have the whole Japanese thing happening now, just cant see a reputable company wanting to release a product after only a safety trial and possible small efficacy if they don't know it will work that well i don't think they will risk it!

[sascha]

I doubt that it will be available that soon, their phase 2 trial is just about to begin which is over three years, i know they now have the whole Japanese thing happening now, just cant see a reputable company wanting to release a product after only a safety trial and possible small efficacy if they don't know it will work that well i don't think they will risk it!

Arenīt they already in phase 2 studies in germany since 2013?

[Sogeking]

Arenīt they already in phase 2 studies in germany since 2013?

Nope. They are supposed to start this year. But 39 months long phase 2 trial is really long. I mean they did prove safety with phase 1 trials, why go 3 years for effectivity(granted they are safety as well) trials?

I don't know I can only speculate we'll see how Shiseido plays it. But although Shiseido might get to market sooner, effectivity could still be downplayed...

[sascha]

Nope. They are supposed to start this year. But 39 months long phase 2 trial is really long. I mean they did prove safety with phase 1 trials, why go 3 years for effectivity(granted they are safety as well) trials?

I don't know I can only speculate we'll see how Shiseido plays it. But although Shiseido might get to market sooner, effectivity could still be downplayed...

Thanks for clearing things up, man.
I just saw this article where it was written they want to start trials in germany(Charité Berlin) in 2013, so I was a bit confused.
To me it makes perfect sense what they did. The new trial in germany will bring 288 data points or so, compared with the roughly 16 data points from phase 1.
In the meanwhile Shiseido does a more practical study with access to the general public(with conditions). That is pretty smart. Asian men and women tend to treat their hair loss earlier and seem to care even more, of course members of hair loss forums care the most in my opinion.
But as you said, we will see