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not the point. For Histogen to be more effective as finasteride, it would have to post pictures TWICE AS GOOD as finasteride pictures. Have you seen Rogaine pictures? Histogen's BEST pictures are nowhere even close to the AVERAGE results from Propecia and/or Rogaine.
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2020 THREE things you need to take into account:
1) What you're comparing it to? The picture you have shown is of a patient on Minoxidil and Propecia for 12 months. A potent combination but with serious potential side effects. I don't think anyone is planning to take Propecia for the rest of their lives.
3) Compliance & Ease of Use: 2 sessions every 3 years vs. once daily oral tablet + twice daily topical application
2) Age group: this patient is well into his 50's, making him an unlikely responder on Propecia.
Now, I know that at least in the beginning Histogen will have its limitations. Mostly because their current safety trials never exceeded 2x2cm area. This means that their initial FDA approval will not allow them to exceed 20 injections per session. But hopefully in Phase IV long-term trial, they will try to expand their safety data on much larger numbers of injections.Comment
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You've joined last week and all your posts so far have been about nothing but praising Histogen? Nothing suspicious all right...
Your points are crap. Three sessions multiplied by nothing is still nothing. They haven't done anything.Comment
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Also, something that striked me last night as I read the news update was:
To date, Histogen has only released macroscopic photos of female patients and male patients over 50 years. Now, showing HSC's efficacy in these groups does sound groundbreaking, but what about the younger healthy males that have lost their hair in the last 5 years or so?
We already know that those in the younger group managed to grow back their temples, which is awesome; but where are the photos?
My guess is its coming in Feb 2013, just before they launch Phase III. Why? I'm not so sure...Comment
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2020 we're all buddies here mate, trying to help each other get through hairloss. I'm a recent nw2 that have some experience in trials and have gained so much by reading your posts and everybody elses. So I thought may be I should join and help answer some of your questions.
Cheers mate.Comment
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yeah the next step is Phase TWO not phase THREE. Anwyays, if they had any good temple pictures, I'm sure they would have posted it so they don't.Comment
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Millions people do and majority of them have zero side effects.
Don't act like HSC is 100% safe. Did you know that Follistatin(if it even goes systematically from HSC) reduces sperm count? Wow I bet no one here did. Sure HSC safer than Propecia but it doesn't matter much when propecia 5x as good results.Comment
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Haha! exactly. Furthermore, I've never, ever, seen anyone respond to finasteride the way that picture indicates, and i've been on forums for a looooonggg time. Most everyone claims no regrowth, but "seems" to be maintaining. Although, "seems to be maintaing" is really a meaningless comment because there is no way for the user to assess it. He doesn't know if he'd maintain without the medication - he can only speculate.
Most continue losing hair on the medication and assume that the rate of loss is less than would be without treatment. Which is probably a safe assumption to make. But, i also think the maintaining effect is probably overstated. I took the drug for numerous years and saw no regrowth what-so-ever. I mistakenly assumed it was "maintaining" me, so kept taking it despite that i was starting to see side effects. Once the side effects became too much to bear, i was forced to quit. I was quite shocked that there were no negative repercussions from quitting. Rate of loss stayed the same off it and i had no massive catch up loss. So it turns out the drug wasn't doing squat for me. Well, except inducing gyno and screwing with my sleep. So glad i took it
Histogen's results as reported are great. I have no idea where that photo that is being passed around came from. I can't find it on histogen's website. And furthermore, if it turns out that photo is real, only a small portion of the scalp was treated. No reasonable person would expect to see massive regrowth - especially when you consider that the effects of the drug are known to stay very local to the spot of administration.Comment
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unfortunately the pictures are real and this is probably the best they got... It says right at the top that the article was posted by Eileen Brandt. Guess what - she works for Histogen:
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My guess is december/January which is the very end of the current phase.
they do state that these are initial results and under the photos it says these were taken at 5-6 months after injections. So who knows what a year will look like.
I think we'll be seeing one more update from Histogen before the end of the year.Comment
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The Histogen pdf: http://www.histogen.com/downloads/si..._HSC_Final.pdf
This is a very large pixel dimension pdf document. All of you digital artists or people familiar with Adobe PhotoShop know that PhotoShop can open PDFs and rasterize them at a high resolution. At 45 inches wide by 40 inches high, one gets a clear look at the photos in this document. Histogen could very well hold promise for patients with hair loss. The photos in this PDF could be just a disconnect between Histogen's scientists and marketing department. The photos in the document exhibit the classic before and after photo flash thing. The photo flash thing goes like this: You shoot the before photo with a flash and the bright light obscures some growing hair. The after photos are shot in a lower light environment that allows reasonable detail that was obscured in the before photos. The new versions of PhotoShop have some advanced features that can re-establish pixel contrast obscured by a flash in some cases. I was able to run the male's before picture through a couple of filters and find hair growing from the scalp that was obscured by the flash in the original image. The female's before photo also has a flash with her hair pulled back. The after photo shows her hair forward covering the formerly thin area. The second female photo appears more impressive although the before photo is desaturated for some reason. I am a patient of Dr. Cole's and I asked him about Histogen. He was unimpressed by their presentation at the recent ISHRS meeting because of the photos presented there. Dr. Cole told me the results of new hair loss treatments need to be presented to doctors in the form of sharp consistent images. Dr. Cole also mentioned a "debate" he got into with the presenter at the ISHRS meeting in the Bahamas, which I won't go into here.
I think the bottom line here is, if you scientists have great results, present them in large, clear, sharp, and consistent photographs. Fire the marketing department if necessary. Avoid at all costs strategies that are commonly known by many doctors and patients related to photo flash on before images. This can happen unintentionally and casts a shadow of doubt and certainly doesn't help promote a ground-breaking medical technology.Comment
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Apples & Oranges.
HSC doesnt need to be taken as often as finasteride, HSC has not shown any negative adverse reactions in clinical trial, HSC may not prove to be a product that stops working after 24 months - 5 years as Finasteride has proven to be. HSC is increasing total hair count & density after a single treatment whereas a single treatment of Finasteride does virtually nothing. Finasteride has proven ineffective against older patients/ higher norwoods whereas HSC has proven to be MORE effective in older patients. Finasteride has never shown any evidence of temporal hair growth compared to evidence provided by HSC.
Lets make this even, lets square Finasteride patient (NW5) up against HSC treated patient (NW5) and lets inject once a week vs once a week on Finasteride (one pill a week) lol see who has a better hair count after 12 months.Comment
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you people still don't get it... I don't care what numbers they came up with - this is the reality:
FINASTERIDE/ROGAINE:
HISTOGEN:
If it was any different, Histogen would be the first to post their awesome results which they don't haveComment
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