realistically, when can they make a safe alternative for finasteride?

[rdawg]

It's tough to say that what fin does is what is strictly necessary to stop hairloss. By that I mean, it's possible a future product will target a more specific hormone/part of the body(i.e PGD2) so that it will have a lesser effect on your hormones. Although I dont fully understand what finasteride exactly does to stop hairloss so don't quote me on that.

What I think is more likely is something that STIMULATES the hair enough to overpower what is trying to kill it miniaturize it maybe?

or possibly a lighter fin dose coupled with a powerful stimulate could be the solution.

I'd say we're lucky that we have something that at least halts the hairloss ALOT with fin but we do not have a product that can properly stimulate the hair. Minoxidil is ok but for the most part ineffective after a while, we need something better in that area.

[Follicle Death Row]

If (if!) PGD2 blocking topical treatments hit the market relatively soon, CB-03-01 will be obsolete before it's even released.

Well yes though I'm quite skeptical of them being able to get out a PGD2 blocker before CB-03-01. Hope I'm wrong on that.

[Dazza]

Well yes though I'm quite skeptical of them being able to get out a PGD2 blocker before CB-03-01. Hope I'm wrong on that.

Just did a search on CB and found a few other forums doing group buys of this stuff. Seems pretty expensive. Is there ment to be a official source of this stuff?

[Tracy C]

I think it's more the threat of hair multiplication. We've been hearing for more than 10 years now that the HM breakthrough to cure hair loss is imminent. With that on the horizon there wasn't much incentive to try and develop a better drug to stop hair loss.

That is a very valid point. Hair multiplication will happen, it's happening now, it's just a matter of when will it become available to those who need it. It could happen five or ten years down the road, or it could happen next year. No one really knows. All people who are not directly involved in the research can do is speculate - and speculate they do.

[DepressedByHairLoss]

I will concede that people make valid points when they say that topical anti-androgens are not being produced because the advent of hair multiplication is imminent. However, as Pate says, a topical anti-androgen that is more effective than finasteride and without the side effects could still make a company a ton of money. I view it as being even simpler: doctors themselves could even produce a topical version of finasteride which could be more effective than oral finasteride and without the side effects, since it is locally applied to the scalp and not circulated throughout the entire body. I've heard of a dermatologist in NYC who makes his own version of minoxidil, as well as another mesotherapy doctor who injects dutasteride into the scalp. There's no reason why more of these doctors cannot create topical versions of finasteride, especially since I'm sure they're aware that oral finasteride causes plenty of people side effects. But unfortunately, there has been such minimal progress in the field of hair loss treatments that we've been stuck with the same old options for the past 15 years: minoxidil (whose results are very, very minimal at best), finasteride, and hair transplantation (which most people statistically don't even want.

What really gets me is that a lot of the possible treatments for hair loss could be autologous (or using components already approved by the FDA) and therefore do not need to go through rigorous clinical trials. The use of topical finasteride is one example. Another example is the use of autologous stem cells to regrow damaged stem cells or body parts. Plenty of doctors, such as Dr. Purita in FL, are using stem cells taken from a person's own body to heal injuries, regenerate damaged cartilage, and even in orthopaedics to in place of invasive procedures like knee replacements. I really don't see why such autologous procedures could not be used for hair loss. Dr. Greco is attempting to this type of thing and I really commend him for it. However, he's the only one that I know of trying to do such things. Unfortunately the majority of the hair loss population is not being served adequately at all by today's treatments.

Lastly, I will concede that finasteride can be pretty effective, but minoxidil is really a joke in terms of a hair regrowth stimulant. We really need a much more powerful hair regrowth stimulant.

[Tracy C]

Lastly, I will concede that finasteride can be pretty effective, but minoxidil is really a joke in terms of a hair regrowth stimulant.

Minoxidil is absolutely not a joke for those who have regrown hair with it. Many people have regrown hair with Minoxidl, that's what keeps Minoxidil on the market. I am sorry that you haven't regrown hair with it but the truth is many people have, including me. Many more will regrow hair with Minoxidil in the future, until something better comes along.

[DepressedByHairLoss]

I don't know Tracy, I just really haven't seen anyone experience significant hair regrowth results with minoxidil. It's a very weak vasodilator and all I've seen it grow are very weak vellous hairs. Even on Rogaine's website, I don't see any significant hair regrowth results. Worse yet, I've seen plenty of cases (including on this forum) where minoxidil has caused people to shed hair that has never grown back. It's just a very inconsistent treatment that I haven't seen stimulate any meaningful hair regrowth in anyone. I'm glad that you experienced regrowth results with it, but I generally think that women have a much easier time regrowing hair than men do, maybe because women typically lose hair in a diffuse pattern rathern than the horseshoe. As I've said before, we really need a much better hair regrowth stimulator than minoxidil, and it really just boggles my mind that we don't have one yet.

[Tracy C]

If by "significant" you mean grow all of your lost hair back, that isn't going to happen. Not with Rogaine or Finasteride or anything else as of yet. I did not grow all of my hair back with Rogaine, but I did grow a significant amount of my lost hair back. The hair that has grown back is not vellus hair anymore either. I stuck with the treatment and that regrown hair now looks like the rest of my hair. So we obviously define "significant" differently. To put it into perspective for you, I would still be wearing wigs if I had not grown any significant hair back from using Rogaine. Because my transplant surgeries alone were not enough to give me a complete and feminine head of hair.

With regard to your other comments... You absolutely cannot judge how well anything works by what you read on the internet, including the comments about it within this forum. It is obvious that many if not most of the posters here who complain about Minoxidil are either using it off label or their expectations are too high and unrealistic (ie; Expecting full regrowth). Sure it would be great to get full regrowth but that isn't possible yet. What we do have now does work, and it works for most people who use it properly. It isn't perfect but it IS better than what we had not so long ago, which was nothing.

I realize you are beyond appreciating anything that does not give you all of your hair back and then some, but that is not a healthy attitude to have. You can decide to get past this and take what help you can get and make the most of it, but you chose not to. Some day we will have better treatments. But for now, what we have is what we have - and what we have does work for most. I'm sorry you feel it has done nothing for you.

[JJJJrS]

I realize you are beyond appreciating anything that does not give you all of your hair back and then some, but that is not a healthy attitude to have. You can decide to get past this and take what help you can get and make the most of it, but you chose not to. Some day we will have better treatments. But for now, what we have is what we have - and what we have does work for most. I'm sorry you feel it has done nothing for you.

What's with the bitchy, condescending attitude? The guy's been nothing but respectful to you.

Whether you like it or not, the current options on the market today, other than HST possibly, aren't really great at all. I'm glad they helped you but the majority of guys aren't going to risk the possible permanent side effects from propecia or the huge scar a FUT will give you.

Most people are not doing anything about their hair loss but I'm sure that would change if there were side-effect free, low risk treatments.

[DepressedByHairLoss]

Thanks a lot for the support, JJJJrs. You seem like a very sensible guy and I agree with what you say.

Tracy, I realize that you really mean no harm at all, but it's wrong to make a judgment about me, saying that I am beyond appreciating anything that does not give me back a full head of hair and then some, especially since I said no such thing whatsoever. In fact, if minoxidil could even regrow a small or moderate amount of my hair, then I would be totally thrilled. Hell, if it even thickened up the thinning areas of my head, then I would be satisfied. I never expected it to regrow me a full head of hair, nor did I say any such thing. But it hasn't regrown a damn thing for me (nor thickened up any thinning areas), as well as for a bunch of my friends. It's just simply not a strong vasodilator at all and that's why it's regrowth results have mainly been very minimal for most men, if it regrew anything for them at all. Worse off, there are plenty of men who have shed hair while using minoxidil that has never grown back.

It's very cool that you regrew a significant amount of your hair back using Rogaine, but unfortunately those are not the results that most men experience when using Rogaine. Most men really do not grow back much of anything using Rogaine. That's why I love that on Rogaine's website (or on their commercials), they never show any before and after photos. Because they cannot provide any evidence of their ridiculous claim that Rogaine regrows hair in 85% of men. Plus, I think women generally achieve much better results when using minoxidil, mainly because they experience diffuse hair loss most of the time and not the traditional horseshoe. If I experienced the regrowth results that you did when using Rogaine, I would literally be jumping for joy.

But whatever, I don't want to get in an argument here. I think we both provide valuable insight to this forum, and plus, you're a fellow musician too (--:

[Follicle Death Row]

Minox hasn't given me back any vellous hairs. I actually think it sped up the progression for a short while because I shed some weaker hairs on it and thinned out a bit and they didn't come back. Not to say minox doesn't work it just hasn't worked for me. The genetic component of mpb is prob too strong but hey it's worth a shot I guess.

[krewel]

Minox hasn't given me back any vellous hairs. I actually think it sped up the progression for a short while because I shed some weaker hairs on it and thinned out a bit and they didn't come back. Not to say minox doesn't work it just hasn't worked for me. The genetic component of mpb is prob too strong but hey it's worth a shot I guess.

Same here. I don't use anything anymore, since I never wanted to take Finasteride.

[Kirby_]

In fact, if minoxidil could even regrow a small or moderate amount of my hair, then I would be totally thrilled. Hell, if it even thickened up the thinning areas of my head, then I would be satisfied. I never expected it to regrow me a full head of hair, nor did I say any such thing. But it hasn't regrown a damn thing for me (nor thickened up any thinning areas), as well as for a bunch of my friends. It's just simply not a strong vasodilator at all and that's why it's regrowth results have mainly been very minimal for most men, if it regrew anything for them at all. Worse off, there are plenty of men who have shed hair while using minoxidil that has never grown back.

I feel exactly the same about finasteride - it's been utterly useless after 9 months usage, just made me shed a whole load of hair that hasn't returned, with very bad consequences for my physical appearance. The so-called "treatments" we have are on the market are practically next to useless, and there's nothing worse than being condescended to by the lucky few that have gotten winning lottery tickets... I mean, I knew fin wouldn't get my hair back to where it was when I was 19 or whatever, but it hasn't even shown itself to be beneficial in any minute way to improving the quality of my hair, quite the opposite.

[Thinning@30]

I feel exactly the same about finasteride - it's been utterly useless after 9 months usage, just made me shed a whole load of hair that hasn't returned, with very bad consequences for my physical appearance. The so-called "treatments" we have are on the market are practically next to useless, and there's nothing worse than being condescended to by the lucky few that have gotten winning lottery tickets... I mean, I knew fin wouldn't get my hair back to where it was when I was 19 or whatever, but it hasn't even shown itself to be beneficial in any minute way to improving the quality of my hair, quite the opposite.

Here here! I had a very similar experience with Finasteride. I took it for a little over 9 months. It didn't seem to do anything for my hair, but it gave me very noticeable side effects. I also did minoxidil for about the same period of time, and that did nothing for me either. We need better treatments.

[Follicle Death Row]

I guess the treatments don't work for us guys because we have aggressive loss and are headed for norwood 6.

When the time is right I'll probably have to lop it all off completely and just make sure I'm svelte (cause I don't have the desire or determination to get jacked) with a nice tan.

I hate the facial hair compensation thing some guys do. I think it looks bad. Much better to forgo the facial hair. Works for Kelly Slater, Bruce Willis, Zizou etc. At least I think my facial features are suited to bald but I'd much rather have hair. Oh well. First world problems.