Equol

[UK_]

I don't think equol "lowers" DHT in the same manner as fin. It prevents DHT from attaching to hair follicles, but does not lower the amount if I recall correctly.

Why the heck to we have DHT receptors on our hair follicles? What kind of God would design that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4238NN8HMgQ

[UK_]

It does lower the amount of serum DHT, just with a different method to fin. Fin stops the production of DHT by blocking 5a. Equol attaches itself strongly to DHT, after which it is no longer DHT.

It can also pass cellular membranes, so it can enter the prostate and hair follicles and attach itself to DHT there. A few studies have confirmed that DHT levels are lowered.

If DHT levels are lowered wont the body compensate by producing more test? And if 5AR is the same more test will be converted to DHT, requiring more and more equol. I also dont see how this method mitigates the sides experienced during the use of Fin... just looks like a different version of fin - might aswel call it "Dutasteride II".

[neversaynever]

I don't think equol "lowers" DHT in the same manner as fin. It prevents DHT from attaching to hair follicles, but does not lower the amount if I recall correctly.

It does lower the amount of serum DHT, just with a different method to fin. Fin stops the production of DHT by blocking 5a. Equol attaches itself strongly to DHT, after which it is no longer DHT.

It can also pass cellular membranes, so it can enter the prostate and hair follicles and attach itself to DHT there. A few studies have confirmed that DHT levels are lowered.

[lilpauly]

Is LilPauly using Eqoul already?

How are you getting on with it LP?

J

My equal should arrive anyday now

[Conpecia]

Of course it will. The fact remains that DHT has its function in the body. I'm honestly not sure how anyone could feel that you will not have side effects lowering DHT by up to 90%.

I don't think equol "lowers" DHT in the same manner as fin. It prevents DHT from attaching to hair follicles, but does not lower the amount if I recall correctly.

[Conpecia]

No way I can wait another whole year for those results! Guess I'm gonna start with a low dosage and see if I can just maintain, then up the dosage after that trial concludes.

[neversaynever]

sigh.....so how much can we reduce it by and in conjunction reduce any potential sides?

We have been around this a million times with Fin, surely the fact that equol doesnt affect the reductase means that it has a potentially safer side effect profile no?

It seems we cant win.

Logically yes, equol should have far less side effects (if any).

It has been tested upto 320mg for a short period, no side effects reported. We're looking at around 25mg for a 70% DHT reduction (guessing!). Noones got the info. Only way to know is to try, ensuring you check your hormone levels before, and after one month of equol.

In august 2013 this trial will finish...

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00962390?term=equol&rank=1

around 124 taking varied doses of equol. This trial (focusing on the prostate) should tell us whats happening. If you dont want to take any 'risks', just wait.

Im told that equol can be used as a topical, but there is no info as to how effective it will be.

Equol also has other health benefits. Fin has no other health benefits.

[Jairus]

Can someone tell me of a topical that reduces DHT by a considerable amount with negligible sides effects?

Not interested in messing with hormones.

possible conjecture accepted.

[Jairus]

Of course it will. The fact remains that DHT has its function in the body. I'm honestly not sure how anyone could feel that you will not have side effects lowering DHT by up to 90%.

sigh.....so how much can we reduce it by and in conjunction reduce any potential sides?

We have been around this a million times with Fin, surely the fact that equol doesnt affect the reductase means that it has a potentially safer side effect profile no?

It seems we cant win.

[Jasari]

Also....

2020 I think you mentioned 3mg reduced DHT by 10-15%.

Im not up to speed on high levels of DHT suppression, but if you were to increase the tablets to ensure a level of 90%+ suppression and even tho they say equol doesnt have side effects, would that high a level result in anything?

Thanks

Of course it will. The fact remains that DHT has its function in the body. I'm honestly not sure how anyone could feel that you will not have side effects lowering DHT by up to 90%.

[Jairus]

Also....

2020 I think you mentioned 3mg reduced DHT by 10-15%.

Im not up to speed on high levels of DHT suppression, but if you were to increase the tablets to ensure a level of 90%+ suppression and even tho they say equol doesnt have side effects, would that high a level result in anything?

Thanks

[Jairus]

Is LilPauly using Eqoul already?

How are you getting on with it LP?

J

[2020]

how about this study?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19597532

"The serum levels of sex hormone-binding globulin significantly increased, and the serum levels of free testosterone and dihydrotestosterone (DHT) decreased significantly after 3-month supplementation."

those people were taking SOY ISOFLAVONES which some people are able to convert into equol but it's not the equol itself that's causing changes in those other hormones

[neversaynever]

Now this is more interesting..

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00787007?term=equol&rank=3

A trial testing EQUOL at high doses.

These studies in healthy participants establish the first report on the plasma and urine levels of unconjugated S-equol after oral dosing. The rapid absorption and pharmacokinetic parameters show that S-equol exposure is linear with dose. There were no significant drug-related adverse events even at the highest dose tested of 320 mg; these data provide the information for dose selection for efficacy studies in postmenopausal women.

The study was for both men and women. Tolerated well upto 320mg. Cant seem to find the full study write-up though. I believe they did multiple trials with varying doses each day. Would be very beneficial for us if someone can hunt down more details from their results.

[neversaynever]

how about this study?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19597532

"The serum levels of sex hormone-binding globulin significantly increased, and the serum levels of free testosterone and dihydrotestosterone (DHT) decreased significantly after 3-month supplementation."

Also from that very study...

All 28 volunteers completed the 3-month isoflavone administration as scheduled. No statistically significant adverse events were reported by the study participants. Diarrhea was the most frequently reported adverse event and occurred in 3 (11%) of the 28 participants. Two participants had diarrhea of grade 1 according to the Common Terminology Criteria for Adverse Events (v3.0) several times during the consecutive 2 days, and one complained of grade 1 diarrhea once only. No participant discontinued the study regimen or withdrew from the study because of these adverse events. The mean adherence rate was more than 99% during the whole study period. During the 3 months of Isofla A administration, all participants showed no marked change in their life styles.

Again this doesnt tell the full story. These guys were a mixture of non producers and producers. They were given soy isoflavones (60 mg daily). These produced slightly different results between the two groups.

If the study was of non equol producing men, having 60mg of equol daily, then it would be of more interest to us.