Spencer Kobren Speaks To Dr. Craig Ziering - Histogen’s HSC Update 6/16/12

[maxhair]

So, are you suggesting that they're actively turning away the big news media?

Because in my experience, when you're doing something newsworthy, and release a press release, the big news corporations call you.

In my opinion, the news media are simply unimpressed so far.

Zeiring is a shady character. I would not buy a second hand car from him.

If he's sitting on the next best thing, then why does he sound so flaky?

I've heard him speak at a hair surgery seminar. He was confident, cracking reasonably funny jokes all the way through his presentation, which means he's a smart guy, very capable of communicating, and yet when he's talking about Histogen with Spencer, it sounds like he's crapping his pants, and is worried people are going to start smelling it soon.

If we wait X number of months or years to eventually find out Histogen does nothing, because we were too polite to properly find out, then its a waste, and further delay to finding a cure.

Look at Gho. Full of words, with no proof, and yet no one here has managed in a few years to prove one way or the other whether he's bullshitting us or not. (I think he is full of it).

Stop giving these ****ers the benefit of the doubt.

[gmonasco]

Why couldn't they just inject inject and inject until you get the desired results? They already proved that their results are compoundable so what's the problem?

Because "compoundable" doesn't necessarily correlate to a linear relationship between dosage and results.

[neversaynever]

explain yourself. Why couldn't they just inject inject and inject until you get the desired results? They already proved that their results are compoundable so what's the problem?

Well I guess its possible if they inject, inject, inject. I dont think they even know yet....so we certainly wont know. And like youve said recently, we dont even know if the hairs will last more than one cycle. We have to wait and see.

By cure I mean, a true cure. A true cure would give us a full head of hair, no matter what stage our baldness is, and may immunise us from further hairloss. I really dont think HSC will do that.

Until they show completely bald scalps growing good amounts of hair, the jury is out. My personal hunch is that they wont. I think they will rescue vellus hairs and possibly areas of scalp that have been slick bald for a short while.

Even Dr Cots said he is not sure if follicles have a point of no return in a recent interview.

This might be the start of the cure though, given that theyre getting results that noone has ever got before...

Id go for repeat HSC treatments if it mantains my hair. That doesnt mean im cured though...but somehow I think id be happy with that!

[neversaynever]

So, are you suggesting that they're actively turning away the big news media?

Because in my experience, when you're doing something newsworthy, and release a press release, the big news corporations call you.

In my opinion, the news media are simply unimpressed so far.

Zeiring is a shady character. I would not buy a second hand car from him.

If he's sitting on the next best thing, then why does he sound so flaky?

I've heard him speak at a hair surgery seminar. He was confident, cracking reasonably funny jokes all the way through his presentation, which means he's a smart guy, very capable of communicating, and yet when he's talking about Histogen with Spencer, it sounds like he's crapping his pants, and is worried people are going to start smelling it soon.

If we wait X number of months or years to eventually find out Histogen does nothing, because we were too polite to properly find out, then its a waste, and further delay to finding a cure.

Look at Gho. Full of words, with no proof, and yet no one here has managed in a few years to prove one way or the other whether he's bullshitting us or not. (I think he is full of it).

Stop giving these ****ers the benefit of the doubt.

What big press release? One PDF? That was merely an update I believe, not a huge statement of intention. He did sound a bit nervous at times, but I think hes having to choose his words very very carefully. Other next gen treatments dont even bother talking to the media at all.

I think you're over reacting and frustrated. But its really not long before they will announce the full phase 2 results. Lets just see what happens.

[Pate]

explain yourself. Why couldn't they just inject inject and inject until you get the desired results? They already proved that their results are compoundable so what's the problem?

The Law of Diminishing Returns... the results suggest the first set of repeats work almost as well as the first but we don't know how well subsequent ones will go yet.

Also there is no evidence it will work on slick bald scalp yet. No evidence that it won't either, that we've seen.

I'm also slightly cautious that if they just go nuts with the injections there may be issues with scarring, even if they use the finest needles possible. Ever seen a heroin addict's arm?

I honestly believe the 'base case' - the most likely scenario - is that as long as you have some terminal hair left, you will with repeated treatments be able to get a cosmetically 'normal' amount of hair ie at least 50% of original density.

Still undecided on bald scalp, particularly temples where for most of us we've been slick bald for several years.

[UK Boy]

End of October

Think I'm gonna make a pact with myself to not come on here til the end of October now. At the moment all the posts are just people giving speculation about things, there's no real news about at the mo. Come the end of October the ISHRS meeting will have been held and I'm thinking we should have fresh info from Histogen, (6 months results, maybe a bit more cos they will actually be past 9 months by then) Allergans, (I believe the phase II trial will have finished by then) Replicel (Will have reached 1 year point of phase I/II trial and hopefully given information about start of phase IIb) Neogenics (Don't hold out much hope of it being a break-through but it's due to be released in Sept by what I've heard) and maybe even Aderans will provide some info at the ISHRS meeting (their final set of phase II trials is due to complete in Feb 2013 isn't it? so they might given some info about results based on 6 month data or at least an expected start date for phase III)

Then there'll be another quiet period but at least we got Xmas and stuff to enjoy. Hype will start up again in Feb 2013 I think when we will prob get Histogen's 1 year results and details of their next trial. We'll have to wait until March for Aderans end of phase II news I guess. Also if Replicel really get going and start phase IIb trials this autum like they said they would aim to then we could be looking at 6 month data from them at around the same time.

Having written it all out like that actually makes me kinda excited, we could have a hell of a lot more info in less than a year! I know that the actual treatments still won't be available (apart from neogenics :$) but at least it gives hope. At the moment all I'm reading on the forums is speculation and desperation, I'm not finding it helpful or supportive. So see ya all in about 3 months time (Hope I can keep to that!)

D
x

[UK_]

What does being sued for patent infringement have to do with a company's legitimacy?

Because no company would defeat a major corporation through a gruelling 3 year legal battle without being considered remotely legitimate afterward.

Why do you need to be so pedantic?

I could easily answer your questions one after the other but I really cant be ****ed with your irritating pointless cross-examinations.

Maybe next time I should post knowing an acidic **** like you is hovering near-by waiting to jump on the slightest error - you remind me of Tracy C lol - this is a forum ffs - take your "im always right" attitude & piss off.

[Kiwi]

Because no company would defeat a major corporation through a gruelling 3 year legal battle without being considered remotely legitimate afterward.

Why do you need to be so pedantic?

I could easily answer your questions one after the other but I really cant be ****ed with your irritating pointless cross-examinations.

Maybe next time I should post knowing an acidic **** like you is hovering near-by waiting to jump on the slightest error - you remind me of Tracy C lol - this is a forum ffs - take your "im always right" attitude & piss off.

Tracy is awesome.
Unlike Tracy this guy is just a douche :P

[UK_]

Tracy is awesome.
Unlike Tracy this guy is just a douche :P

Im growing sick of all the pedantic ****ers on this forum as of late - everyone knows everything these days - & everyone is looking to argue about anything with anyone.

You cant say anything without the "fact police" jumping up & offering their God damn sanctimonious input... Tracy C flagged up a post made by NeedHairASAP just b/c he said "maximum minoxidil growth can be achieved after 4 months"... maybe he's wrong, maybe he's right - but who cares? Just quit the bitchiness & the pedantic nit picking for Gods sake.

[yeahyeahyeah]

Think I'm gonna make a pact with myself to not come on here til the end of October now. At the moment all the posts are just people giving speculation about things, there's no real news about at the mo. Come the end of October the ISHRS meeting will have been held and I'm thinking we should have fresh info from Histogen, (6 months results, maybe a bit more cos they will actually be past 9 months by then) Allergans, (I believe the phase II trial will have finished by then) Replicel (Will have reached 1 year point of phase I/II trial and hopefully given information about start of phase IIb) Neogenics (Don't hold out much hope of it being a break-through but it's due to be released in Sept by what I've heard) and maybe even Aderans will provide some info at the ISHRS meeting (their final set of phase II trials is due to complete in Feb 2013 isn't it? so they might given some info about results based on 6 month data or at least an expected start date for phase III)

Then there'll be another quiet period but at least we got Xmas and stuff to enjoy. Hype will start up again in Feb 2013 I think when we will prob get Histogen's 1 year results and details of their next trial. We'll have to wait until March for Aderans end of phase II news I guess. Also if Replicel really get going and start phase IIb trials this autum like they said they would aim to then we could be looking at 6 month data from them at around the same time.

Having written it all out like that actually makes me kinda excited, we could have a hell of a lot more info in less than a year! I know that the actual treatments still won't be available (apart from neogenics :$) but at least it gives hope. At the moment all I'm reading on the forums is speculation and desperation, I'm not finding it helpful or supportive. So see ya all in about 3 months time (Hope I can keep to that!)

D
x

Ive been thinking about the same thing.

Being a frequent visitor on hairloss forums does more harm then good. You end up obsessing about it even more.

[UK_]

Think I'm gonna make a pact with myself to not come on here til the end of October now.

Im with you on that!

[TravisB]

I'm also slightly cautious that if they just go nuts with the injections there may be issues with scarring, even if they use the finest needles possible. Ever seen a heroin addict's arm?

And you know that they won't need to push the needle very deep, and also you won't need to repeat the injections very often? Plus, they'll be using sterile needles.

Do you know what acupuncture is? I think in the worst case HSC will be similar to it.

There will be absolutely no dangers related even to many injections.

[mlao]

There will probably be no difference between HSC vs PRP injections. I had that done a few years ago and once they numb your scalp it is virtually painless.

[UK_]

HSC will be our heroin.

[gmonasco]

Because no company would defeat a major corporation through a gruelling 3 year legal battle without being considered remotely legitimate afterward.

The history of corporate fraud is littered with companies that had massively greater appearances of legitimacy but turned out to be run by persons perpetrating huge scams (e.g., Enron, ZZZZ Best, WorldCom, Petters Group, Barings Bank).

None of this means that I have any doubts about the legitimacy of Histogen, but the notion that corporate legitimacy is proved by the winning of a lawsuit is just naive.

Why do you need to be so pedantic?

What is it about accurate information that scares you so?