Fin binds & inhibits 5AR...wheres the science behind inhibiting *DHT*?

[NotBelievingIt]

Ya know, the biggest issue with most significant side effects is the fact a crucial conversion enzyme is being inhibited from binding to testosterone.

Therefore by "blocking" that enzyme we can prevent conversion to "unwanted" hormones, in this case DHT.

Why can't (hasn't) science figured out how to actually attack DHT directly? We know what it is, what it looks like, what it does....is there nothing to "bind" to on DHT? We don't want to block 5AR, we want to block DHT - locally in the scalp preferred of course.

[2020]

Why can't (hasn't) science figured out how to actually attack DHT directly? We know what it is, what it looks like, what it does....is there nothing to "bind" to on DHT? We don't want to block 5AR, we want to block DHT - locally in the scalp preferred of course.

yeah we can do that through the use of topicals... RU, CB, ASC.... Most people don't need that much DHT anyways so taking one pill a day (fin) makes sense

[gutted]

also equol binds to dht directly.

[NotBelievingIt]

Then why aren't these products more highly marketed? Maybe that'll change as the lawsuit(s) against Merck gain more attention...asdkfjl23kfjasdf


Basically I'm scared to go on Fin. My self esteem needed enough work before the hair loss came into the picture, I don't want to even consider the possibility of side effects that would effect not only down there, but potentially in my head.

Its more then likely complete paranoia and I'll be fine...but I can't pull the trigger. There *must* be another way that is basically as good as Fin.

[2020]

Then why aren't these products more highly marketed? Maybe that'll change as the lawsuit(s) against Merck gain more attention...asdkfjl23kfjasdf

WHICH products? RU, CB, ASC?

Basically I'm scared to go on Fin. My self esteem needed enough work before the hair loss came into the picture, I don't want to even consider the possibility of side effects that would effect not only down there, but potentially in my head.

Its more then likely complete paranoia and I'll be fine...but I can't pull the trigger. There *must* be another way that is basically as good as Fin.

..... just try it for a few months. If you feel that your body can't tolerate it then stop using and just forget about it. You have a 98% chance that it will work for you with ZERO problems

[Pate]

Then why aren't these products more highly marketed? Maybe that'll change as the lawsuit(s) against Merck gain more attention...asdkfjl23kfjasdf

I believe the problem is that an anti-androgen that binds to DHT systemically will also bind to testosterone since they are almost the same molecule. And if you think a chemical that acts on DHT indirectly is bad "down there" then imagine one that acts on your primary sex hormone AS WELL. Infinitely worse.

Even if we could find a drug that only binds to DHT, it'll still have pretty much the same side effects as fin because the end result is the same - less DHT in your body. That is what causes the fin side effects, not the lower 5AR.

Drugs like RU and CB are a bit different because they are designed not to be absorbed into the bloodstream but only to act topically. So even though they act on both T and DHT the idea is that you apply them to your scalp and they don't get into your system.

If you don't want to try Fin, your options are either to wait for drugs like ASC or CB to come on the market (it's unlikely that RU will ever be marketed) which won't be this side of 2016, or you can try and get those drugs on the grey market and use them yourself, with all the attendant risks there.

Personally if I were in your position I would try Fin for a few months and monitor the sides. I've been on it for nearly 5 years and never noticed a side effect. All it's done is grow back my crown almost completely and stop me from losing any more hair anywhere. Unfortunately I left it too late - I wish I had gone on it three years earlier and then I would have stopped at a NW3 instead of a thinning NW6.

[elvispresley]

I believe the problem is that an anti-androgen that binds to DHT systemically will also bind to testosterone since they are almost the same molecule. And if you think a chemical that acts on DHT indirectly is bad "down there" then imagine one that acts on your primary sex hormone AS WELL. Infinitely worse.

Even if we could find a drug that only binds to DHT, it'll still have pretty much the same side effects as fin because the end result is the same - less DHT in your body. That is what causes the fin side effects, not the lower 5AR.

Drugs like RU and CB are a bit different because they are designed not to be absorbed into the bloodstream but only to act topically. So even though they act on both T and DHT the idea is that you apply them to your scalp and they don't get into your system.

If you don't want to try Fin, your options are either to wait for drugs like ASC or CB to come on the market (it's unlikely that RU will ever be marketed) which won't be this side of 2016, or you can try and get those drugs on the grey market and use them yourself, with all the attendant risks there.

Personally if I were in your position I would try Fin for a few months and monitor the sides. I've been on it for nearly 5 years and never noticed a side effect. All it's done is grow back my crown almost completely and stop me from losing any more hair anywhere. Unfortunately I left it too late - I wish I had gone on it three years earlier and then I would have stopped at a NW3 instead of a thinning NW6.

do you have some photos of your crown? possibly before and after? if not is ok only the after (now)

it is ok also by private message

thx a lot

[Artisan]

"Personally if I were in your position I would try Fin for a few months and monitor the sides."

What is the recommended dosage for Fin? and does it need to be taken daily? Just following this thread and many others and have started to think Fin/Propecia might be worth trying until i can raise funds for HT/Stem Cell etc....Any advice would be appreciated.

[greatjob!]

"Personally if I were in your position I would try Fin for a few months and monitor the sides."

What is the recommended dosage for Fin? and does it need to be taken daily? Just following this thread and many others and have started to think Fin/Propecia might be worth trying until i can raise funds for HT/Stem Cell etc....Any advice would be appreciated.

Propecia is one pill a day which is 1mg of finasteride. Propecia is pretty expensive but you can get a prescription for generic proscar which is 5mg of finasteride and cut it in to quarters. Walmart sells the generic proscar for $9 for a three months supply and most pharmacies will price match. I get generic proscar from Frys grocery pharmacy and they price matched walmart. Username Spex has made some posts on here and a few other sites recommending a gradual dosing of finasteride of people who have experienced sides. I personally have been on finasteride for 2years solid and have not seen one side effect. I wish I would have started much earlier, so my recommendation is to give it a shot. Some people have had side effects, and most have gone away after they stopped taking it.

[DepressedByHairLoss]

I believe the problem is that an anti-androgen that binds to DHT systemically will also bind to testosterone since they are almost the same molecule. And if you think a chemical that acts on DHT indirectly is bad "down there" then imagine one that acts on your primary sex hormone AS WELL. Infinitely worse.

Even if we could find a drug that only binds to DHT, it'll still have pretty much the same side effects as fin because the end result is the same - less DHT in your body. That is what causes the fin side effects, not the lower 5AR.

Drugs like RU and CB are a bit different because they are designed not to be absorbed into the bloodstream but only to act topically. So even though they act on both T and DHT the idea is that you apply them to your scalp and they don't get into your system.

If you don't want to try Fin, your options are either to wait for drugs like ASC or CB to come on the market (it's unlikely that RU will ever be marketed) which won't be this side of 2016, or you can try and get those drugs on the grey market and use them yourself, with all the attendant risks there.

Personally if I were in your position I would try Fin for a few months and monitor the sides. I've been on it for nearly 5 years and never noticed a side effect. All it's done is grow back my crown almost completely and stop me from losing any more hair anywhere. Unfortunately I left it too late - I wish I had gone on it three years earlier and then I would have stopped at a NW3 instead of a thinning NW6.

You really do bring up some good points in those first two paragraphs; very well thought out. I've always suspected that finasteride causes more side effects than we're let to believe, and your reasoning really provides an interesting point of view. What I've always said all along is that we need a drug that inhibits DHT levels in the scalp and NOT throughout the entire body. I mean after all, when you drastically lower levels of a major male hormone in the body, there's bound to be more than 3% of people experiencing side effects; I think that's just common sense. I really wonder why alternatives to oral finasteride haven't come out. Like maybe a version of finasteride that is injected into the scalp by dermatologists, or even a topical version of finasteride (a kind of finasteride cream that can be rubbed onto the scalp). Or maybe even a type of injectable finasteride that can be used similar to how diabetes sufferers inject insulin into their arms. These things should really be explored. This just really goes to show that the innovation with regards to hair loss is largely pathetic.

[Artisan]

Propecia is one pill a day which is 1mg of finasteride. Propecia is pretty expensive but you can get a prescription for generic proscar which is 5mg of finasteride and cut it in to quarters. Walmart sells the generic proscar for $9 for a three months supply and most pharmacies will price match. I get generic proscar from Frys grocery pharmacy and they price matched walmart. Username Spex has made some posts on here and a few other sites recommending a gradual dosing of finasteride of people who have experienced sides. I personally have been on finasteride for 2years solid and have not seen one side effect. I wish I would have started much earlier, so my recommendation is to give it a shot. Some people have had side effects, and most have gone away after they stopped taking it.

Much appreciated Greatjob....going to order some generic fin and see how I go, it it works without sides I'm gonna be kicking myself but better late than never. Thanks again.

[Pate]

You really do bring up some good points in those first two paragraphs; very well thought out. I've always suspected that finasteride causes more side effects than we're let to believe, and your reasoning really provides an interesting point of view. What I've always said all along is that we need a drug that inhibits DHT levels in the scalp and NOT throughout the entire body. I mean after all, when you drastically lower levels of a major male hormone in the body, there's bound to be more than 3% of people experiencing side effects; I think that's just common sense. I really wonder why alternatives to oral finasteride haven't come out. Like maybe a version of finasteride that is injected into the scalp by dermatologists, or even a topical version of finasteride (a kind of finasteride cream that can be rubbed onto the scalp). Or maybe even a type of injectable finasteride that can be used similar to how diabetes sufferers inject insulin into their arms. These things should really be explored. This just really goes to show that the innovation with regards to hair loss is largely pathetic.

Well, injection wouldn't work because it would get into the bloodstream and then you would have the problem with systemic sides again.

I honestly don't know why the topicals haven't been developed for hair loss. I know some of them have issues with systemic absorption ie they get into the bloodstream even when applied topically. It may be because none of them are capable of actually growing much hair back, so the drug companies have figured they won't sell and aren't worth the enormous cost of getting them to market.

This may change now that the furore over Propecia is hotting up. I see CB-03-01 just got its IND application approved (Investigational New Drug) by the FDA, but for acne. But there is probably a good chance the acne formulation could be used successfully off-label on the scalp.

do you have some photos of your crown? possibly before and after? if not is ok only the after (now)

I have some somewhere, on another hard drive. I'll see if I can find them. But they are not that impressive because I went straight from NW3 to NW6 so the crown itself filled in but the rest of the top of my scalp is just the same. I'd say the area that regrew was about 1.5" high by 2.5" wide. But I did have nearly full regrowth in that area so that's better than nothing...

[Follicle Death Row]

I'm sure there's some people out there trying 17 alpha propionate for their hair. Surely someone has knocked it together and given it a whirl. CB03-01 does sound very promising. While not the holy grail it would offer slightly better results than finasteride and little to no systemic absorption. I think they feel it would only be needed once a week.

[elvispresley]

I have some somewhere, on another hard drive. I'll see if I can find them. But they are not that impressive because I went straight from NW3 to NW6 so the crown itself filled in but the rest of the top of my scalp is just the same. I'd say the area that regrew was about 1.5" high by 2.5" wide. But I did have nearly full regrowth in that area so that's better than nothing...

nice if u show me the full regow with REAL pictures i will give a try to that DRUG called finasteride. i f u can show them it will be great

thx a lot