Is Dr. Gho's HST the real deal?

[Follicle Death Row]

Well if so then I'm not worried about histogen or anything like that. We'd be pretty much set and I wouldn't be surprised if acell makes advancements like that (above 75% regrowth) before histogen hits the market. I hope!

That's what we're all hoping for buddy. It will also mean young men that are losing their hair can go down the surgical route and have hair when it matters most. They won't have to see their youthful looks go down the drain with their hair.

[RichardDawkins]

Today i read something very interesting a german hair loss transplant clinic with a good reputation is offering their FUT for 1,66 Eurp per Graft :-)

It seems they exhale their last breath right now and try to get customers to do FUT by ridiculously lowering their prices OR dont showing their price tags on their homepages anymore :-)

Thats an indicator for good stuff in the future

[Follicle Death Row]

Whoa. That's really cheap. Wonder what sort of reputation they have? There's a clinic in Ireland that charge 10 euros a graft by URFUT and as far as I'm aware it doesn't get cheaper the more grafts you get. Mega expensive. They're highly rated though. Dr. Ziering apparently said they're now probably 'the best transplant clinic in the world'. Might have to take that with a pinch of salt though. They're the most expensive I've come across.

[RichardDawkins]

Yeah this clinic has a good rep unfortunately but they are aware, that people are beginning to ask "not so cool" questions. And if you dont have something to debunk arguments and questions, you just lower the price and those questions will become silent.

German patients could easily visit the netherlands (Gho) and thats also a problem. So i think right now, the bid dieing of old standrds has begun

[Follicle Death Row]

The power of easily accessible information. It's great that potential patients are asking the tough questions and demanding more. I'm confident the donor problem will rectified in the near future.

[RichardDawkins]

Oh you can bet your ass it will, because if not, a lot of clinics will have bad times heading their way :-)

[Follicle Death Row]

Oh you can bet your ass it will, because if not, a lot of clinics will have bad times heading their way :-)

Yeah and one FUE only clinic springs to mind. They'll be up shit creek if the problem isn't solved. Things will get really ugly if the finasteride stops working and they come back looking for another 4000 grafts after spunking 4000 on the hairline.

Off topic, but what's your view on finasteride? I'm dead set against its use for hair loss.

[CVAZBAR]

Yeah and one FUE only clinic springs to mind. They'll be up shit creek if the problem isn't solved. Things will get really ugly if the finasteride stops working and they come back looking for another 4000 grafts after spunking 4000 on the hairline.

Off topic, but what's your view on finasteride? I'm dead set against its use for hair loss.

So you're thinking of this without Fin? What about the people who continue to progress and thin? It would be great to have something better than Fin to stop hair loss and have the chance to restore as much as you want, at least for the people who already lost most hair.

[Follicle Death Row]

I don't know whether or not I'll go down the surgical route of hair restoration. Ideally I'd just get over the whole hair loss thing and it becomes a non issue but at this stage I'm really hoping something comes of Acell+PRP or Histogen. Tried finasteride for 3 weeks, didn't feel great on it and did a lot of research on it. For me it's not worth the risk so I binned them. DHT is not the real culprit. Sure if you had none of it you wouldn't go bald but if you had proper working progenitor cells like non balding people it wouldn't matter a damn how high our DHT levels are. We don't suffer from male pattern baldness because we have higher DHT levels that a non balding person therefore I'm not content to reduce a hormone which has many benefits. It's far from the ideal solution and I won't risk my health or well being for hair. Well that's how I see it.

Also just because someone is not suffering noticeable side effects does not mean it's not having a negative effect. Studies have shown that low levels of DHT have been linked with Alzheimers and can inhibit hippocampal neurogenesis, i.e. the area of your brain devoted to memory, hence the possible so called brain fog. It's long term safety profile worries me. It's a huge committment to decide to take it.

CB 03-01 will hopefully make finasteride redundant. It's in trials and will probably hit the market in 2015 if all goes well. It's an anti-androgen topical which is reportedly twice as effective as finasteride. Fingers crossed for future hair loss sufferers. Also current finasteride users could transfer to it which would be great.

Now if hair multiplication became a reality I'd consider the surgical route. As it stands I do not believe my donor or hair characteristics would give me the result I want. Plus I consider it quite a risk. Sub optimal growth in just one procedure and you could be left with a shoddy long term result as we currently cannot get over the donor issue. Limited paint and an ever expanding canvas and all that. Also I wouldn't go the down the surgical route banking on future developments. That would be an awful idea. Yes, I realise I'm quite conservative.

I do use minoxidil and nizoral to try and slow the loss for the time being. If they crack HM and CB 03-01 comes along in 2015 I could reconsider things then. Histogen may also be around and we could have Aderans nearing the end of phase 3. Of course I realise nothing make come of all this and I can wave my hair goodbye as disappears down the drain but as a young man of 25 I'm not going to avail of a questionable drug for long term use. Having said all this I understand perfectly well that people see finasteride as a viable option and I respect that. If it works for them great. It's just not for me.

Right now I'm just trying to keep abrest of cutting edge developments in the field that might help me out in the future. I find regenerative medicine and tissue engineering fascinating.

[CVAZBAR]

I'm with you bro, Im just not sure how well an anti-androgen like cb 03-01 would work. I mean for many people drugs like Fin and Dut do absolutely nothing and I wonder how this would be different even if it's stronger. Let's hope the future is good to all of us.

[Follicle Death Row]

Yeah I don't believe topical anti-androgens alone will be the solution but if it's more effective than finasteride it's an infinitely better option for those just beginning to thin.

It would be fantastic if one day you could buy an over the counter shampoo that had the ant-androgenic effect of a treatment like CB 03-01 and also wnt7a proteins and the right growth factors. I wonder if it would be possible to develop a shampoo based vehicle that could deliver such results in the future.

[UK_]

DHT is not the real culprit. Sure if you had none of it you wouldn't go bald but if you had proper working progenitor cells like non balding people it wouldn't matter a damn how high our DHT levels are. We don't suffer from male pattern baldness because we have higher DHT levels that a non balding person therefore I'm not content to reduce a hormone which has many benefits. It's far from the ideal solution and I won't risk my health or well being for hair.

Good comment, I have always viewed Finasteride as an archaic solution to hair loss, kind of like severing a limb to treat chronic joint pain, or a birth control pill that works by reducing your interest in sex.

It is also good to see researchers following up on this pathway by looking rather at the deeper genetic aspects of hair loss, gene therapy like Histogen/Follica looks very effective as too does the HM of Aderans and Replicel, both concepts address the need to target genes or generate and multiply hairs with the 'correct' genes.

I too binned the idea of taking finasteride, after reading all of the hormonal therapy forums - and I believe more and more people are ditching this drug, Merck are facing many lawsuits and will lose their license in 2014, to me, it seems the beginning of a kind of renaissance for the hair loss industry, the end of a 20 year long dark age of hair loss.

[Follicle Death Row]

Completely agree. Finasteride is a desperate measure and indeed an archaic one. In reality, even if someone doesn't suffer the side effects they will still lose there hair eventually. It only delays the inevitable, albeit for some by 5 years others by 10, some not at all mind. I have real problems with how finasteride is marketed for hair loss. Even when they say that it's actually good for your prostate I feel it's a bit of a cop out.

The truth is that the balance of DHT and androstenedione should be 1:1. You can have very high DHT levels but most young males will then also have very high androstenedione levels and thus a healthy prostate. Actually then lowering DHT could be problematic for prostate health. I'd urge all to do their due diligence in researching finasteride and DHT if they're considering using it. It should be no different than the thought and research one should give surgical measures.

For me the cost benefit ratio was way off so I'm not using it. We should demand better from the industry.

[CVAZBAR]

Completely agree. Finasteride is a desperate measure and indeed an archaic one. In reality, even if someone doesn't suffer the side effects they will still lose there hair eventually. It only delays the inevitable, albeit for some by 5 years others by 10, some not at all mind. I have real problems with how finasteride is marketed for hair loss. Even when they say that it's actually good for your prostate I feel it's a bit of a cop out.

The truth is that the balance of DHT and androstenedione should be 1:1. You can have very high DHT levels but most young males will then also have very high androstenedione levels and thus a healthy prostate. Actually then lowering DHT could be problematic for prostate health. I'd urge all to do their due diligence in researching finasteride and DHT if they're considering using it. It should be no different than the thought and research one should give surgical measures.

For me the cost benefit ratio was way off so I'm not using it. We should demand better from the industry.

Exactly! We should demand more from this shitty industry. We need something unique for hair loss. Propecia was never meant for Hair loss or any crap that's out right now.

[gmonasco]

We should demand better from the industry.

What consequences will the "industry" suffer if they don't accede to our demands?