Histogen Update - Spencer Kobren Speaks With Dr. Craig L. Ziering

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  • UK_
    Senior Member
    • Feb 2011
    • 2744

    I was reading of some research that was released in March this year (mouse model) where they were able to promote anagen through the shh pathway by using 'Polygonum multiflorum extract' (lol, I know):

    Abstract: In Polygonum multiflorum extract treated group, we observed increase in the number and the size of hair follicles that are considered as evidence for anagen phase induction. Immunohistochemical analysis revealed that earlier induction of -catenin and Shh were observed in Polygonum multiflorum extract treated group compared to that in control group.

    It is reported that THSG, an active compounds from Polygonum multiflorum, induced melanogenesis in melanocytes (Jiang et al., 2009), which suggested that it might promote hair growth by increasing anagen-phase hair follicles. In order to improve the bioavailability of Polygonum multiflorum extract, we produced Polygonum multiflorum extract after microbial fermentation using strains of Lactobacillus. Therefore, we investigated the hair growth promoting activity of the fermented Polygonum multiflorum extract using 7 week-old C57BL6/N mice which are in the stable telogen phase. The shaved back skins of C57BL6/N were treated with topical application of Polygonum multiflorum extract for 1, 2, 3, and 4 weeks. At 2 weeks, Polygonum multiflorum extract induced hair growth in the telogenic C57BL/6 mice, while neither less visible hair growth was observed in the control group. To further investigate the hair growth promoting effect, we plucked 10 hairs per mouse randomly from the treated area and measured the hair length. The hair length of Polygonum multiflorum extract treated mice was significantly longer than control group. Further, we will compare the hair promoting activity between Polygonum multiflorum water extract and fermented Polygonum multiflorum. If so, we will analyze the active compounds from each extract, which are responsible for the hair promoting activity. Various hormones, growth factors and development-related molecules are involved in hair follicle growth (Boivin et al., 2006; Datta et al., 2009; Stenn and Paus, 2001; Yamazaki et al., 1999). To trigger anagen onset, several activators must be expressed up to a critical threshold concentration. Among them, -catenin and Sonic hedgehog (Shh) expression play key regulators of hair follicular growth and cycling that act as anagen-inducing signaling molecules (Peters et al., 2002; Stenn and Paus, 2001). Induced -catenin expression was observed in the dermal papilla at anagen onset and also detected in the stem cell progeny in the hair matrix throughout anagen phase (Schneider et al., 2009). Shh mainly expressed during anagen phase.

    When catagen phase of hair follicles begins, Shh expression ceases and its expression is hard to detect in the telogen hairs (Oro and Higgins, 2003). To elucidate the molecular mechanism of Polygonum multiflorum extract in inducing anagen hair follicles, we examined the expression levels of -catenin and Sonic hedgehog (Shh) in the skin. Immunohistochemical analysis result showed that -catenin and Shh expression were up-regulated in Polygonum multiflorum extract treated group compared to that in control group at 2 weeks. Some studies showed that continuous -catenin signaling is required to maintain hair follicle tumors (Lo Celso et al., 2004). We observed that Shh and -catenin expression levels gradually began to reduce in both groups after 3 week (data not shown), indicating that anagen phase of hair follicles was ceased (Datta et al., 2009). Further experiments are needed to identify active components in fermented Polygonum multiflorum extracts and to determine their mechanisms of action, which might be responsible for the hair promoting activity. In summary, it was reported for the first time that Polygonum multiflorum extract promoted hair growth by inducing anagen in telogenic C57BL6/N mice. In Polygonum multiflorum extract treated group, we observed an increase in the number and the size of hair follicles that is considered as evidence for anagen phase induction. Immunohistochemical analysis revealed that -catenin and Shh were expressed earlier in Polygonum multiflorum extract treated group than that in control group. Taken together, these results suggest that Polygonum multiflorum extract promote hair growth by inducing anagen phase of hair follicles.
    Source: Park, Zhang & Park, 2011. Available here: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...78874111001644

    Comment

    • DepressedByHairLoss
      Senior Member
      • Feb 2011
      • 876

      Although it has shown maybe that unregulated manipulation of the Shh pathway can cause cancer, I believe the chance that it can cause cancer is totally overblown. I agree that we shouldn't be experimenting with it ourselves but tumors I believe can only arise if the Shh pathway is hit on constantly. However, if it is transiently regulated, no tumors will occur and the potential for new hair growth is very real.
      I read the article too about polygonum multiflorum but I really don't believe that any of these all-natural herbs and nutraceutical remedies have any real potential to regrow hair or reverse miniaturization. It's chemical proteins like WNT, Noggin, or BMP that possess real potential to regrow hair. I know that Histogen is testing WNT proteins but I will some one would test Noggin or BMP.

      Comment

      • Curlybill99
        Junior Member
        • Aug 2011
        • 12

        I really hope histogen can get 25% of hair every shot.. that would make my life a whole lot better.

        Comment

        • Jundam
          Senior Member
          • Mar 2011
          • 110

          Still not sure why everybody talks about the amount of hair grown in pre-clinical safety trials as if it's anything but an indication of its potential. Histogen is going to try every possible way they can to increase that efficacy and the success rate of HSC before release because the amount of hair they grew in pre-clinical trials would never be worth marketing. At least not in my opinion. Too few men would pay a large amount of money to receive scalp injections that will grow cosmetically insignificant amount of hair. Especially if they need to get more than one set of injections. Some may still want it but I doubt it'd be enough of a profit in it to go through with phase III trials if they can't improve the results.

          Besides there's no reason only some follicles would answer while others would not, assuming of course that they did indeed grow new hair as they said. I still believe that if they can wake up one follicle they can wake them all up. Just a matter of finding the best method to reach all of the follicles. Same thing with Replicel really. Different approach but the same basic idea applies. If you can bring one follicle back from the dead you can bring them all back.

          Comment

          • CAlex
            Senior Member
            • Feb 2011
            • 113

            @Jundam

            for one, Its a very high starting point(the preclinical growth data hsc showed) Even if they are only able to duplicate the density results, over a larger area of course, that would definitely be worth bringing to market.

            Anyone who thinks 1/4 of natural density that lasts over 2 years(minimum) from a non invasive technique is not worth bringing to market has been drinking too much minoxodil IMO.

            Obviously we would like more then 57 new hairs cm/2 but even that number blows anything currently on the market out of the water by miles. this could be marketed so well. It would come with none of the ht stigma and im sure if the price is around 5 thousand that it would easily make it into the preventative market for young guys just noticing the slightest thinning who would rather play it safe and get the injections rather then risk to see where their hair loss might take them.

            If I could get 57 new hairs cm/2 tomorrow I would drop out of university and use next years tuition money to pay for it without blinking. that density would make a world of difference on so many guys.

            Comment

            • Follicle Death Row
              Senior Member
              • May 2011
              • 1066

              25FU/cm2 of new hair is a damn good starting point. Consider a native density of 90FU/cm2. Let's say your hair has thinned all over to 30FU/cm2. If HSC fortifies the remaining 30FU/cm2 and gives you 25FU/cm2 of hair back then you're looking at 55FU/cm2. That would be a pretty dramatic change.

              Even a bad scalp, norwood 6 could shoot for a decent head of hair (average 50FU/cm2 all over) with HSC and 6000 FUE. No need for a horrible smiley on the back of your head.

              If the treatment ends up being more effective than 25FU/cm2 and even compounds then happy days. There is cause for optimism here guys.

              Comment

              • DepressedByHairLoss
                Senior Member
                • Feb 2011
                • 876

                As I've said before, I really like what Histogen is doing and so do so many other people who so desperately want to regrow their hair but don't want permanent head scarring. I believe some one on here earlier said that in some countries they may be able to market HSC Complex after Phase II since many of these countries don't have an organization like the FDA hounding them. That would be an awesome idea!! Many of us would absolutely jump at the chance to get the results that HSC Complex is achieving right now. Also, with people paying to get the treatment before it completes Phase III, Histogen would have more money for more expansive clinical trials and to test different doses of WNT's and embryonic material that will ultimately comprise the final version of HSC Complex. It would be a win-win situation for everyone involved.

                Comment

                • Follicle Death Row
                  Senior Member
                  • May 2011
                  • 1066

                  Which do you think will dominate the market: Histogen's HSC or Aderans' Ji Gami? They both seem to be shooting for 2014.

                  Like Blu Ray vs. HD.

                  Comment

                  • UK_
                    Senior Member
                    • Feb 2011
                    • 2744

                    Histogen would rule Aderans.

                    Comment

                    • Curlybill99
                      Junior Member
                      • Aug 2011
                      • 12

                      I also believe histogen will be better then aderans. But i would definitly get both if aderans would add more hair to what histogens could do.

                      Comment

                      • Samiam
                        Senior Member
                        • Apr 2011
                        • 268

                        Originally posted by Follicle Death Row
                        Which do you think will dominate the market: Histogen's HSC or Aderans' Ji Gami? They both seem to be shooting for 2014.

                        Like Blu Ray vs. HD.
                        LMAO this is stupid as f***, just last year it was the end of 2012. I mean is this ever gonna happen?

                        Comment

                        • Samiam
                          Senior Member
                          • Apr 2011
                          • 268

                          And by this I mean any REAL cure or treatment

                          Comment

                          • RichardDawkins
                            Inactive
                            • Jan 2011
                            • 895

                            None, they will be simply overshadowed by a new transplant standard then sorry.

                            Also i can see the disclaimer there "Results may vary" which means "We dont care if you pay a few 1000 bucks and got no hair"

                            Comment

                            • CAlex
                              Senior Member
                              • Feb 2011
                              • 113

                              LOL at a new transplant standard.

                              Surgically implanting hairs will NEVER be able to match anything close to normal densities or the normal growth patterns. Transplanted hairs look horrible and do not look or feel natural.

                              Obviously Histogen wouldn't have a grow 57 hairs per cm/2 sign or your money back but im sure if you got very low results you would be compensated either through more injections or some money back. If not word would spread and it would go from a legitimate treatment to snake-oil salesman scam fairly quickly.

                              Comment

                              • Jundam
                                Senior Member
                                • Mar 2011
                                • 110

                                Originally posted by CAlex
                                ...........
                                You're just blinded by your own desperation as evidenced by your notion that hair is worth more to you can a university education. I'm not saying there's not a lot of guys out there with your mindset, just saying there are not enough. Especially in the current economic climate. I believe the current HSC trial being conducted landed on 15 million for phase A and B and phase III is bound to last longer and be far more extensive. If they can't guarantee cosmetically significant results then it'll most likely not be worth it.

                                Don't get me wrong, I believe in Histogen. I believe if they can replicate the results from the pre-clinical trials then by the time they reach the market they will have increased efficacy exponentially.

                                Comment

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