Histogen Update - Spencer Kobren Speaks With Dr. Craig L. Ziering

[john2399]

But if you look at the figure referenced in that note, it shows photos displaying a hair count going from a baseline of 214.5 hairs to 324.5 hairs after one year, which is only a 51.2% increase.

Why do all your comments seem like you are rooting for this to fail. Which side are you on here?

[yeahyeahyeah]

Why do all your comments seem like you are rooting for this to fail. Which side are you on here?

He is probably not bald or balding, that's why.

Rather, he gets a kick out of tormenting bald guys.

[jpm]

The hair count increasing in the placebo group is probably a mixture of margin of error and the nature of the hair cycle

Sounds logical and in fairness all results come with a margin of error +/- a certain %.

so an increase of 5% (+/-6%) which means it could and increase of 11% or even a decrease of 1%.

[Nilli57211]

Okay, so. In order to stop these figures flying back and forth all over BTT and the other forums... I have bought the Histogen paper published in the JDD and linked to on their website. Cost 15 USD for a one-time purchase. Unfortunately I am not a student any more I would have free access to journals like these through my university but oh well, 15 USD is a small price to pay.

So here are the official figures from Histogen, published in the peer-reviewed journal.

At 3 months:

Shaft thickness +6%
Thickness density +13%
Terminal hair count +21%
No mention of total hair count, presumably it was not statistically significant

At 5 months:

No statistically significant increase over 3 months (obviously some individuals had better results at 5 months but the overall change was not statistically significant).

At 12 months:
Total hair count +16%
Thickness density +18%
Terminal hair count +30%

So there you have it, straight from the source. A single injection of HSC resulted in an average 30% increase in terminal hair count at 12 months. There is some other interesting stuff in the paper too but I haven't read it all yet.

If TOTAL hair count increased, that means that the treatment must have induced a few entirely new follicles to form as well. That's the understanding I always had - I believe what I read in one of their articles or press releases that HSC was effective in transforming vellus hairs back to terminal hairs, and it also appeared to create brand new terminal follicles as well.

Histogen has absolutely blown everyone else out of the water so far. I see this as being the possible cure, especially if they really are creating new follicles in addition to reversing miniaturization. I am cautiously optimistic about this being the cure for people with bald scalps and very optimistic about this being the solution with people who just have thinning. Go Histogen!

[gmonasco]

Why do all your comments seem like you are rooting for this to fail. Which side are you on here?

I'm on the side of promoting accurate information and realistic expectations. Which side are you on?

[Horseshoe]

Just reading through the Histogen article and it states, 'HSC's effect on hair growth was concentrated within 1-2mm of the site of injection'.

I read somewhere that it spread out
once injected...otherwise you would need hundreds of injections. ouch!

It can't be any worse then getting micro scalp pigmentation. So for the real deal, sign me up.

[gmonasco]

I read somewhere that it spread out once injected...otherwise you would need hundreds of injections. ouch!

That still sounds better than the thousands of slits in your scalp that an HT requires, doesn't it?

[yeahyeahyeah]

I'm on the side of promoting accurate information and realistic expectations. Which side are you on?

Its grown hair though

[krewel]

This is incredible and it's just Phase I. I already thought they're good, but not that good..

[jpm]

Anyone got any news as to what is being said at this conference thats going on?

[2020]

I read somewhere that it spread out once injected...otherwise you would need hundreds of injections. ouch!

^ that's my biggest worry right now.... 2mm is nothing. That's less than the size of your fingernail.
To apply all that growth on your entire head would need 50,000+ injections...

[gmonasco]

Its grown hair though

It has, but the important question, as always, is how much of that growth is truly "new" hair (i.e., newly-created follices or revived "dead" follicles) rather than existing hair that has just come out of the telogen (i.e., resting) phase. Histogen's paper references the latter:

"Preclinical studies demonstrated no safety issues and suggested that the induction of anagen in telogen follicles in a murine model of hair growth might be accelerated by injection of HSC."

[yeahyeahyeah]

It has, but the important question, as always, is how much of that growth is truly "new" hair (i.e., newly-created follices or revived "dead" follicles) rather than existing hair that has just come out of the telogen (i.e., resting) phase. Histogen's paper references the latter:

"Preclinical studies demonstrated no safety issues and suggested that the induction of anagen in telogen follicles in a murine model of hair growth might be accelerated by injection of HSC."

Well either way, don't you think this is better then NOTHING? Given what we have on the market are full of side effects. Heck, if it wasn't for the sides, I would probably be using propecia right now.

TBH imo I think histogens treatment will benefit both diffuse thinners and early norwoods. May also give high NWs more coverage after a hair transplant.

[gmonasco]

Well either way, don't you think this is better then NOTHING?

Maybe, maybe not. Some have suggested that minoxidil works primarily by coaxing telogen follicles out of the resting phase, so if that's what HSC is doing, it might not be so different in kind from existing treatments.

The point is that just what HSC is doing, how well it's doing it, and whether it's safe are still issues that are very much up in the air and won't be known until more testing is completed.

[yeahyeahyeah]

Maybe, maybe not. Some have suggested that minoxidil works primarily by coaxing telogen follicles out of the resting phase, so if that's what HSC is doing, it might not be so different in kind from existing treatments.

The point is that just what HSC is doing, how well it's doing it, and whether it's safe are still issues that are very much up in the air and won't be known until more testing is completed.

Well unlike minox, HSC does not need to be reapplied everyday.