New topical drug for male pattern baldnes by dr christiano

[jamesst11]

Well also think of the following. First of all no mice "naturally" balds. Secondly even if you engineer a mice to be devoid of hair what the hell does that have to with do with AGA? I mean we have several pathologies that make humans go "bald" too. Telogen effluvium, alopecia areata, cicatrial alopecia etc. They are all different in their nature. Cicatrial alopecia for example is simply irreversible due to complete destruction of the hair follicle by scarring (fibrosis).

You can't even engineer a mice to have AGA because that would mean you know how AGA works. It's hilarious.

It's very debatable though that stumptail macaque are a pretty good model for AGA. Why? Well they do go "naturally" bald on their scalp. Besides that androgens do seem to play a role in their balding too. Why? Well researchers used to actually test on them in the past. Compounds like finasteride and RU-58841 actually increased hair counts in them. Just like in humans. This means that androgens in stumptail macaque seem to have a negative effect on hair growth on their scalp.

The most hilarious thing in mice is that actually estrogen seems to act as a negative just like for our body hair. Estrogen in humans seems to exert a positive effect on scalp hair. If anything you should compare the fur coat of mice to our body hair, but even that is a joke. All in all mice are a joke model for AGA.

Stumptail macaque balding parent and baby;



Stumptail macaque who actually still has luxurious hair on his head like a boss;

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11399538

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10583042

So why is the baby macaque blading already? or has his hair just not grown in yet??

[ShookOnes]

Actually she says in one of the versions of this article one of the reasons MPB is so hard to treat is because hair follicles cant be grown in a lab, and mouse models do not really translate to humans well. So she says herself mouse models are not very meaningful. I guess no one told the media that, but the media doesnt report truth or facts anyway. Just hype for headlines which is why they love the MPB cure click bait

Just like this thread headline lol. Misinformation all over this thread making people claim cures before 15 years at least is lame

[Hair Bear]

So why is the baby macaque blading already? or has his hair just not grown in yet??

Maybe he jerks off too much and that is why. :P

Seriously though perhaps the baby has no grown in yet.

Its been rather obvious for decades that the mouse model has been a failure and most certainly the very reason why we are in the state we are now as we have been following false research leads.
There are dozens of examples monthly which claims success based on trials focused on mice.
If we could simulate baldness on mice than we would know exactly why we are balding which would require an intricate knowledge of the inner workings of hair loss to such an unequivocal fine degree that we would be able to reverse it or at least treat it in a vastly better way in this day and age.

The only thing mice trials can do is perhaps prove of safety in phase testing beyond that its practically useless and at this stage human trials should begin which would greatly accelerate the knowledge and research sector.

Hair loss cures are the original cash cow and the swindlers may be new generation to generation but the scams and methodology are as old as time but I digress we just have to take these "advancements" with a grain of salt and a balanced mind.

We'll just have to keep hoping for the best and wait and see what happens.

[Swooping]

Well said guys. Yeah the baby hair hasn't grown in yet. Their balding process starts at puberty when androgens begin to rise btw... And I quote;

"Enhanced metabolism of testosterone is evident in the frontal scalp of juvenile balding stumptails with significant production of the potent androgen DHT"

Very similar to AGA.

http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v102/n4/pdf/5611320a.pdf?origin=publication_detail

[mlamber5]

I think the hope is that Alopecia Areata, alopecia totalis, and androgenic alopecia all have the same end point mechanism. In 2 cases it is an attack by the immune system that causes the rapid lock out of hair growth cycling causing irregular resting phase. In AGA it is caused by complicated androgen signaling over time on androgenic hair in susceptible individuals. If all that needs to be done in all cases is overcome the resting phase signal to kickstart the hair cycling again. I think the news that this stuff regrew hair topically is monumental, even if it is on mice.

[baldybald]

I think the hope is that Alopecia Areata, alopecia totalis, and androgenic alopecia all have the same end point mechanism. In 2 cases it is an attack by the immune system that causes the rapid lock out of hair growth cycling causing irregular resting phase. In AGA it is caused by complicated androgen signaling over time on androgenic hair in susceptible individuals. If all that needs to be done in all cases is overcome the resting phase signal to kickstart the hair cycling again. I think the news that this stuff regrew hair topically is monumental, even if it is on mice.

I also was saying AA has the same mechanism as AGA. In AA the immune system attacks the entire head and the totalis the immune system attacks the entire body. In our case the immune system attacks the frontal of the head. By using the future cure as a cream or lotion we can control the area we want to treat

[hellouser]

I also was saying AA has the same mechanism as AGA. In AA the immune system attacks the entire head and the totalis the immune system attacks the entire body. In our case the immune system attacks the frontal of the head. By using the future cure as a cream or lotion we can control the area we want to treat

But that's an assumption and not really the case. The size of the follicle in AA is still in full size whereas in AGA the follicle shrinks.

[Vox]

Very similar to AGA.

Then why macaques are not used in AGA studies? Cost? Practical difficulties? Ethics? What exactly is the block?

http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v1...ication_detail

Researchers know for almost 30 years (the relevant reference in the paper is from 1987!) that macaques provide a good model for AGA in humans and they still use ... mice? I am speechless. Unbelievable.

[Hair Bear]

Perhaps they are a protected species but either way animal testing is frowned upon and probably would not win them any friends as it would possibly complicate matters.

Most people don't care about mice since they are so prevalent world wide.

I believe there was some sort of ban on animal testing throughout Europe in recent or perhaps some sort of a push to ban it in recent times.

[Thinning@30]

Then why macaques are not used in AGA studies? Cost? Practical difficulties? Ethics? What exactly is the block?

I've often wondered this myself. A long time ago, Hideo Uno did some research using latanoprost on balding macaques. I have to imagine it is a combination of cost and practical difficulties. It must be many orders of magnitude more expensive to use monkeys than mice in research projects. Think about it: much longer lifespans, greater calorie requirements, the need for a more varied diet, much greater space requirements, etc. Plus ethics boards probably pay much more attention and are more exacting for studies involving primate subjects. Mice are easy to breed and raise commercially, and there are businesses that specialize in providing them to laboratories.

[Dobler]

It's amazing but I have few questions:

1. Does Dr. christiano know if it also has the potential to grow hair that is affected by AA?
2. Is there any chance we can see it within the next 2-3 years IF(!) it works?

[mlamber5]

It's amazing but I have few questions:

1. Does Dr. christiano know if it also has the potential to grow hair that is affected by AA?
2. Is there any chance we can see it within the next 2-3 years IF(!) it works?

http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/1/9/e1500973.full

Here is the article for anyone interested
1. Assuming you meant AGA instead of AA. They've already shown it works on AA. About AGA, no one knows yet but it looks like it has about as good of a shot as anything any hair loss company/researcher has come up with yet if you ask me.
2. Also don't know. With the 21st century care act potentially, and the fact that this has a proven safety record, as well as the fact that it rapidly initiates anagen from dormant follicles, I think 2-3 may not be so absurd if it is effective.

[Dobler]

http://advances.sciencemag.org/conte.../e1500973.full
Here is the article for anyone interested
1. Assuming you meant AGA instead of AA. They've already shown it works on AA. About AGA, no one knows yet but it looks like it has about as good of a shot as anything any hair loss company/researcher has come up with yet if you ask me.
2. Also don't know. With the 21st century care act potentially, and the fact that this has a proven safety record, as well as the fact that it rapidly initiates anagen from dormant follicles, I think 2-3 may not be so absurd if it is effective.

Cool. I hope Hellouser can interview Dr. Christiano in the congress and maybe we can know more about this.

[JayM]

Perhaps they are a protected species but either way animal testing is frowned upon and probably would not win them any friends as it would possibly complicate matters.

Most people don't care about mice since they are so prevalent world wide.

I believe there was some sort of ban on animal testing throughout Europe in recent or perhaps some sort of a push to ban it in recent times.

Animal ban in eu for testing cosmetics

[baldybald]

Because animals have the right to live too! Believe it or not for one disease I do not remember the name, they used human for clinical trail which help to get the cure. In fact using human for that will speed up the the cure but that is really really horrible