Further Follicept civil conversation

[Afghanwig]

Well, it turns out that an older but excellent publication concluded that all of the key abnormal features of hair follicles in the "fuzzy rat" (same genetic mutation as the "hairless rat") make it an excellent model for AGA. Indeed, the fuzzy rat even responded predictably to minoxidil.

Really ? Then why has AGA for rats been solved ages ago ? For example mice DP cells can simply be expanded in culture and generate new hair. Yet NONE of the cures for mice have resulted in a cure for humans. On your website you are already claiming better results than Rogaine !!! Without having even tried it on humans and where the literature shows us that IGF-1 is actually one of the worst growthfactors in HUMAN trials when it comes to hairgrowth.

That's just weird.

[serenemoon]

Really ? Then why has AGA for rats been solved ages ago ? For example mice DP cells can simply be expanded in culture and generate new hair. Yet NONE of the cures for mice have resulted in a cure for humans. On your website you are already claiming better results than Rogaine !!! Without having even tried it on humans and where the literature shows us that IGF-1 is actually one of the worst growthfactors in HUMAN trials when it comes to hairgrowth.

That's just weird.

Oh lord, here we go...

"So, yes, you are right that the EFFICACY claim may appear to be premature. However, no, I am not new to the hair growth arena. We made the observation well over a year ago. For me, as a scientist in the digital age, a few months of apprenticeship is already more than enough time to become an expert in hair follicle biology, or any other focus of specialized research and knowledge. I have an intuition based on everything I've learned over 30 years as a clinician-scientist (and mouse geneticist with a PhD in Molecular Pharmacology) that some version of Follicept at the right dose and right dosing regimen will be shown to be safe and effective in a short but rigorous prospective randomized double-blind placebo-controlled study. And I think we will have an answer sometime in June-July. It may not be "THE answer.""

He already admitted that it is premature, but explained that he has an intuitive feeling that this may be the answer based on years of experience working in mice and years of experience in science in general. He is humble enough to admit that he may be wrong, but that he will wait and see the results. He already addressed your concerns before you asked it.

[zeos]

I understand that their transdermal technology has the ability to transfer molecules of 22 kDa across the skin. If Follicept were to use AAPE in their gel as it is FDA approved and its merely hundreds of proteins that are below the threshold of 22kDa but must be injected otherwise, would that be the key instead of IGF-1?

Can somebody answer this?

[serenemoon]

Can somebody answer this?

They say they will test those other pathways if IGF-1 does not work. Hope that helps.

[Afghanwig]

He already admitted that it is premature, but explained that he has an intuitive feeling that this may be the answer based on years of experience working in mice and years of experience in science in general. He is humble enough to admit that he may be wrong, but that he will wait and see the results. He already addressed your concerns before you asked it.

On their website they say: Follicept grows hair even after you stop using it. Can't say the same for rogaine". Why say that if you are unsure that it even works on humans ?

[serenemoon]

On their website they say: Follicept grows hair even after you stop using it. Can't say the same for rogaine". Why say that if you are unsure that it even works on humans ?

Er....cos that is what they noticed in the mice trials? And so they thought hmmm, Rogaine works on this rat, when rogaine usage is stopped the rat hair falls off. Hmm, hold up, Rogaine does the SAME TO HUMANS! So MAYBE, if IGF-1 grows hair even after stopping it on the rat, maybe it can do the same for humans too! Hmm, let's try it and see on Humans and see what the results are in June-July! Yeah!!

Like he said, he is going based on what he feels and what he has seen. We will see if the claim is right or not soon. But do remember, the pictures they are showing are rat hair, so it is not like we don't know that it is rats they are talking about. They have been more than honest about everything, so let's wait and see.

[Afghanwig]

Er....cos that is what they noticed in the mice trials? And so they thought hmmm, Rogaine works on this rat, when rogaine usage is stopped the rat hair falls off. Hmm, hold up, Rogaine does the SAME TO HUMANS! So MAYBE, if IGF-1 grows hair even after stopping it on the rat, maybe it can do the same for humans too! Hmm, let's try it and see on Humans and see what the results are in June-July! Yeah!!

So you would disagree that such a statement on their website is at least highly misleading ? I'd rather make it Rogaine has proven to grow hairs on humans. Cant say the same for follicept !

[serenemoon]

So you would disagree that such a statement on their website is at least highly misleading ? I'd rather make it Rogaine has proven to grow hairs on humans. Cant say the same for follicept !

LMAO. That is actually funny. I laughed. LOOL. +1 for the humor. But, I don't think it is misleading because everything is out there and they have said it is rat hair. Now it would be misleading if they were SELLING the product to us already with that claim, and saying that they know it grows hair on humans. But man, we are about to find out soon anyway in a few weeks about humans, so why don't we just wait?

[Delphi]

LOL people are now accusing others on the follicept forum of being me Anyway they switched to a moderation queue there now: only posts that they like will appear on their website. I posted this this morning but it never got through

That’s rich! So Devon the guy who posted that there would be no censorship on Follicept’s blog has "censored" an innocuous comment simply because it makes him uncomfortable.

This is a quote from Devon on Follicept's blog:
"Thanks guys! No censorship here. They have their opinions and whatnot, and they are entitled to them. I understand their skepticism and hesitation, and support it. Just not the attacks.”

[serenemoon]

Arashi, since you tried to post something will a link it it, it will end up in moderation section because people have been trying to advertise there using links..Try to post without any links, it will immediately appear.

And you said "Maybe it's nothing, but I found it quite weird that A) that image in the background in the video didnt match with the forum."

What do you mean? They have only had the forum for 10 days or so...and I am not sure why you say it doesn't look like the Follicept forum? What are the differences that you see?

Also, Arashi, would you be satisfied if he did it with a newspaper? lol. showing the date?

[Arashi]

Arashi, Did you try to post something with a link in it? If so, it will end up in moderation section because people have been trying to advertise there using links..Try to post without any links, it will immediately appear.

Yeah see my post on the previous page. I posted a link to a screenshot. Maybe there's a logical explanation to it all, just would like to hear it from Devon.

[stan]

what is wrong with you guys? some people come up and try to crack this and all that you can be is negative to them, its one thing to be critical and other to be so negative.If it works it works, GREAT!! if it doesnt it doesnt, ours lives will still be the same, we have nothing to lose from this but everything to gain. Lets just be supportive and see how things turn out. We need to act better as a community, dont go whining the next time saying people dont care about baldness if you show such attitude, that too to the well respected researchers in the field. SMFH!!

Perhaps you guys are used to being bald and miserable.

[bigentries]

This thing will work, 100% guarantee

Why do I say this? Because if it doesn't work, their legitimacy gets absolutely destroyed, specially after a spokesperson told an skeptic that he would "kiss his former bald spot". Who would want to associate with people who act in a so unprofessional matter in the future?

There is no way they don't show something. At this point, unless verified by a credible third party, the dudes in the trials could turn into werewolves and I still would suspect the validity of their results

[nameless]

They say they will test those other pathways if IGF-1 does not work. Hope that helps.

I definitely think they should try AAPE in their vehicle and AAPE is already FDA approved from what I understand. That would be awesome.

[hairisbeautiful]

From my understanding, DHT blocks IGF-1 from binding to the hair to promote growth, which is why men who are balding have higher serum levels of IGF-1. Finasteride has been clinically proven to raise levels of IGF-1 in the the dermal papillae for people who get significant results. There haven't been any significant trials completed on whether or not injecting IGF-1 into the scalp can reverse balding. It is all speculation at this point and I'm not going to listen to some random forum user saying that he had injected IGF-1 into his scalp without results. They probably did it wrong or had no idea on the science behind it. And I had asked about AAPE, but the fact that there are hundreds of proteins does not mean that they will all have a positive impact on reversal of balding-in fact for all we know some could have a negative impact. No one has tried this method and Dr Hsu has access to other doctors and trials that us forum users don't have access to. Take a look at creatine for example. Levels of DHT skyrocket, while levels of IGF-1 magically raise as well(Where did all this magical IGF-1 come from?!?). It can't merely be a coincidence. These guys have a hunch. Everyone has been searching for these magical chemicals to regrow hair, while all of this time the answer is 100% in the body, whether it be IGF-1 or not. I have yet to receive a degree in the scientific field, but their method makes sense to me-based on their confidence and the simple studies. I love to see all the negative speculation from those who are not credited in the scientific field, as they fail to provide their degrees and published studies. Is it merely satisfaction shooting down people on the forums who do not have as good as an understanding of AGA as you? Nonetheless, if you really think that this product is crap, let us see what you have to offer!