Anyone have any news from Lauster/Jahoda teams?

[nameless]

8 passages, that's an accomplishment in itself indeed, nice to see this progress. However, key problem with Jahoda's achievements were the lack of correct cosmetic attributes like hair color and thickness. Does this article reveal anything here ?

Arishi, two things:

1. The key problem with Jahoda's achievements are, and always have been, hair inductivity. It the Chinese have solved that problem then that should result in a breakthrough.

2. You were right about the big problem with adipose derived stem cells migrating out of the injected area. Science may have found a solution to that problem. Have you checked out Kerastem?

[nameless]

The Chinese have mastered Jahoda's technique and are rapidly developing methods to take it to clinical trials. Here's the paper they published last month:

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/acsami.6b00202

Interestingly enough, DP cells maintained their Trichogenicity in passage 8 which is unheard of. Hair sprouted after expanding these cells 8 times. Let's see what more this year brings.

Important note: the DP cells used were human. They were just injected into mice! In before, another mouse study

What are the Chinese doing that is different from what everyone else is doing? How can they maintain trichogenicity in passage 8? What is the difference between their technique and the technique of others that allows them to do P8 and maintain trichogenicity?

[joachim]

The Chinese have mastered Jahoda's technique and are rapidly developing methods to take it to clinical trials. Here's the paper they published last month:

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/acsami.6b00202

Interestingly enough, DP cells maintained their Trichogenicity in passage 8 which is unheard of. Hair sprouted after expanding these cells 8 times. Let's see what more this year brings.

Important note: the DP cells used were human. They were just injected into mice! In before, another mouse study

like arashi said, gene expression is probably not solved yet, it's just the trichogenicity part.

my feeling is that the hanging drop method will lead nowhere. transforming iPS into DP cells is the right way to go.

also, what happened to lausters team? are you still in contact with dr. beren atac or dr. lindner?
they practically have achieved nothing so far, it's so dissapointing and frustrating. and i even think, they are not trying hard enough anymore, they probably gave up. their focus is on lab-on-a-chip only. curing hairloss or seriously growing higher amounts of hair in vitro was never their real goal i think.
furthermore, meanwhile many other companies are already working on the lab-on-a-chip thing, so that lindners team is behind others as well.
all in all, i think we can close the book about dr. lauster, dr. linder, and all others related to TU Berlin. it's over. of course they will tinker around for many more years trying meaningless stuff in their labs. in the end it's a university, and they have to do some R&D with their funds. but who cares if anything comes of it or not. let them tinker around for another decade, as long as the jobs are secured, everything is fine.

my only hope is in replicel now, as their science seems to make sense. but still there are so many unknown variables.
histogen is still dead in my opinion, but they're trying to fool investors with their combover images. we are so screwed.

[FooFighter]

Its still mice and still wasting of time on nothing...

For now only: Replicel and Histogen!

[Arashi]

Arishi, two things:

1. The key problem with Jahoda's achievements are, and always have been, hair inductivity. It the Chinese have solved that problem then that should result in a breakthrough.

No. Jahoda already solved that. It's just that the resulting hair wasnt cosmetically viable. Like Joachim just said, gene expression wasnt good enough.

[jamesst11]

Its still mice and still wasting of time on nothing...

For now only: Replicel and Histogen!

They were just injected into mice.. the cells were from human origin. So, this is definitely different than, "just another mouse study".

[nameless]

They were just injected into mice.. the cells were from human origin. So, this is definitely different than, "just another mouse study".

I concur.

[nameless]

No. Jahoda already solved that. It's just that the resulting hair wasnt cosmetically viable. Like Joachim just said, gene expression wasnt good enough.

Jahoda solved the trichogenicity problem partially. You and I debated this before.

The Chinese are saying they have taken up where Jahoda left off and improved on the degree of trichogenicity.

Also, have you taken a look at Kerastem? Do you recall that you said the problem with adipose derived stem cells is that they don't stay in the injected area. Well, you were right...that is the problem.
Kerastem may solve this problem and it does appear that it is producing some solid results. Plus the FDA has authorized a phase 2 study already.

[iaskdumbquestions]

No. Jahoda already solved that. It's just that the resulting hair wasnt cosmetically viable. Like Joachim just said, gene expression wasnt good enough.

Do you mind explaining the difference between gene expression and Trichogenicity?

[Arashi]

Do you mind explaining the difference between gene expression and Trichogenicity?

Sure. Trichogenicity just means the ability to induce a hair follicle. That's what Jahoda already achieved. Yet after expansion of the cells, genetic information was lost in the process. The cells still were able to induce a hair follice, but the resulting hair wasnt cosmetically viable: it was thin and without colour and I think it didnt even reach the surface.

[iaskdumbquestions]

Sure. Trichogenicity just means the ability to induce a hair follicle. That's what Jahoda already achieved. Yet after expansion of the cells, genetic information was lost in the process. The cells still were able to induce a hair follice, but the resulting hair wasnt cosmetically viable: it was thin and without colour and I think it didnt even reach the surface.

Thanks. Do you mind me asking what you do? You seem pretty knowledgable on this stuff, and I'm trying to learn.

[allTheGoodNamesAreTaken]

passages just means dividing cells. So you take a cell, make 2 out of them, now you have 2 cells after on passage. Then you this again and you have 4 cells after 2 passages. So 8 passages just means they managed to make 256 dp cells out of just 1 dp cell and all those cells still were able to induce a hair follicle.

I guessed that was what a passage was, but what I was ultimately wondering was how far away this is from becoming a viable treatment, ie. how many passages is needed?

And is that really true, you only need 1 dp cell to grow a whole follicle? Did they grow 256 follicles? Or 1 follicle using all 256 cells? Or something in between?

[nameless]

Sure. Trichogenicity just means the ability to induce a hair follicle. That's what Jahoda already achieved. Yet after expansion of the cells, genetic information was lost in the process. The cells still were able to induce a hair follice, but the resulting hair wasnt cosmetically viable: it was thin and without colour and I think it didnt even reach the surface.

Some posters at various sites are saying the new Chinese technique is NOT producing better hairs than Jahoda did but that is not my interpretation of the Chinese results. Some are saying that the hairs are still without color and aren't the right size and other such
problems. But my understanding is that the Chinese are saying that they are producing hairs that are good quality. Am I missing something? I haven't seen the whole study.

[joachim]

Some posters at various sites are saying the new Chinese technique is NOT producing better hairs than Jahoda did but that is not my interpretation of the Chinese results. Some are saying that the hairs are still without color and aren't the right size and other such
problems. But my understanding is that the Chinese are saying that they are producing hairs that are good quality. Am I missing something? I haven't seen the whole study.

i'm not sure, but i think this achievement probably means nothing, again.
but we will never know anyway, as they never dare injecting it into a human scalp.
they will be playing around with mice for another decade.

also, if it's true, according to roger_that (you know him well), even sanford&burnham messed up because they misinterpreted their results. the resulting grown hairs were mouse hairs, although they injected the human cells into the nude mice. this is a huge dissapointment as it seemed as the real deal a few months ago. if sanford burnham really messed this thing up, then shame on them. they received millions of funds, probably also because of the latest breakthrough, but if the achievement wasn't real at all, then it's pointless anyway.

i learned that nothing will come from all those researchers worldwide who tinker around with hanging drops and other crap. probably we would already have found a cure if they would finally set up a small human trial. but it will not happen in the next 10 years.

kerastem is also a scam. it's time to face the truth. aape, prp, and now kerastem which is just a slightly advanced form of the adipose thing, this all is useless. it might be beneficial to some degree, but the results are negligible. we simply can't revive the dormant hairs with fat cells and growth factors.

replicel is the only thing left. if it turns out to be ineffective as well, then NOTHING will help us in the next 10 years. mark my words.

[Arashi]

NOTHING will help us in the next 10 years. mark my words.

That's what I think too. All this stuff is interesting but not relevant for us anyway. Highly experimental, not working yet and years and years of testing needed. Not going to happen within the next 10 years. And who knows, it might even take way longer than that.