'S-equol Topical made buy chemist thread

[Saltynuts]

Saltynuts,

The lead researcher for the past 20 years has suggested that equol for hair loss might be much more efficient and effective as a topical. If you read the research article: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...87B557F.f03t03 (You have to rent or buy the full research article), you will see see that a 1.2 % concentration of equol in DMSO completely neutralized DHT in the skin in vitro. I don't think they are suggesting that equol binds to the androgen receptor when applied topically but more so that the concentration of equol brought to bear by application directly at the source of the problem (the scalp) may be able to neutralize scalp DHT by overwhelming and attaching to the DHT in the scalp. This of course doesn't mean that the results will translate in vivo or that a 1.2% solution will be potent enough in vivo but it does create an interesting possibility. FYI Equol is soluble in both DMSO and ethyly alcohol at the same concentration.

Thanks PinotQ! So, won't these tablets work - just dissolve them in ethanol (and maybe some DMSO) at a 1.2% solution?

http://www.amazon.com/Natures-Sunshi...keywords=equol

Wait a second. These tablets are 6 freaking MG a piece? It would take 200 freaking tablets, or over $100 for a 1.2% solution?

[PinotQ]

Thanks PinotQ! So, won't these tablets work - just dissolve them in ethanol (and maybe some DMSO) at a 1.2% solution?

http://www.amazon.com/Natures-Sunshi...keywords=equol

Wait a second. These tablets are 6 freaking MG a piece? It would take 200 freaking tablets, or over $100 for a 1.2% solution?

I have experimented with this somewhat. A 1% concentration would take 887.205 mg dissolved in 3 oz. of alcohol (see this calculator http://www.physiologyweb.com/calcula...alculator.html (2.5735 ml per oz)). That's about 148 capsules or just shy of 2.5 bottles. Feel free to double check my math. However, if you try to dissolve this many capsules, you will end up with a lot of paste and less than 1 oz of alcohol. So I tried it at 1/2% concentration (74 capsules or about 1.25 bottles) and you get about 2 oz of alcohol after straining. To that you would add propylene glycol and water for 3 oz of product. I believe the minoxidil formula is 60% alcohol, 20% PG and 20% water. Again, nobody knows if this will absorb into the scalp enough to be effective but it's a possibility. If you were able to get a 1.2% solution absorbed down to the follicle, the research article suggests almost complete neutralization of DHT. I will be very surprised if somebody doesn't come out with a topical in the near future. There are several companies that use equol in products such as for the prostate (Nature's Sunshine & DesBio - Prostizine ), for weight loss (DesBio - EquolSlim), for skin maintenance and repair (NuSkin - AgeLoc) and for symptoms of menopause (Nature Made - S-Equol....not yet released)

[PinotQ]

Thanks PinotQ! So, won't these tablets work - just dissolve them in ethanol (and maybe some DMSO) at a 1.2% solution?

http://www.amazon.com/Natures-Sunshi...keywords=equol

Wait a second. These tablets are 6 freaking MG a piece? It would take 200 freaking tablets, or over $100 for a 1.2% solution?

FYI Here is a PDF on a DESBIO product for skin that cites some of the research. I believe this sells for about $50 an oz so not practical but it just points out that a topical can't be far behind from someone.

[PinotQ]

FYI Here is a PDF on a DESBIO product for skin that cites some of the research. I believe this sells for about $50 an oz so not practical but it just points out that a topical can't be far behind from someone.

Sorry.....forgot the pdf link: http://desbio.com/download/flyers/yu...actitioner.pdf

[Saltynuts]

Thanks PinotQ. I'll give it a go. Are those tablets I linked the cheapest ones you are aware of? Gonna be a pricey trial, but what the hey.

Thanks.

[PinotQ]

Thanks PinotQ. I'll give it a go. Are those tablets I linked the cheapest ones you are aware of? Gonna be a pricey trial, but what the hey.

Thanks.

The best deal is Nature's Sunshine. I think they are the cheapest (you become a member and after the discount it's about $32 a bottle). But the best thing about these capsules is that everything in them, except equol, is not soluble in alcohol so you will end up with pure equol in alcohol. FYI The alcohol I am using is 70% ethyl from Walgreens but I just bought 90% from the Science Company (you can get PG there as well). I am thinking that 90% alcohol will dissolve more equol (just based on volume) and result in more solution. I'll let you know if that's true after I try it. Also, I pour the solution (after it sits 24-48 hours sealed so the alcohol doesn't evaporate ) into a coffee filter over a large measuring cup and then after most of the liquid runs thru, I squeeze the filter like you would a lemon to get every last drop of liquid. You'll likely find that your final solution with PG will leave your hair greasy unless you blow dry. So I put it on heavy at night so it soaks in. I've been reading about the penetration of minoxidl and saw a paragraph on Bernstein's site where they suggest that one heavy application at night might be more effective than twice a day. From what I can understand the PG helps keep the alcohol from evaporating and it is what penetrates the scalp carrying the alcohol in with it. So possibly a higher ratio of PG. I may try 70% alcohol and 30% PG. It's all just trial and error as I am no chemist and have no experience. Once you try it a few times, work out the kinks and get a routine, it's not that bad.

[Saltynuts]

Got it PinotQ. That brand is the same one I linked on amazon, so I'm going to buy from amazon since I like going through them so much and its less than $1 more per bottle and free shipping. I'm going to dissolve my pills in pure everclear (95%+ percent alcohol), then add butylene glycol (PPG kills my scalp) and probably some penetration enhancers like DMSO, DMI and/or n methyl 2 pyrrolidone. Will report back.

[johnnyboots]

FYI Here is a PDF on a DESBIO product for skin that cites some of the research. I believe this sells for about $50 an oz so not practical but it just points out that a topical can't be far behind from someone.

So if I bought the skin product could I see results if applied to scalp?

[PinotQ]

Got it PinotQ. That brand is the same one I linked on amazon, so I'm going to buy from amazon since I like going through them so much and its less than $1 more per bottle and free shipping. I'm going to dissolve my pills in pure everclear (95%+ percent alcohol), then add butylene glycol (PPG kills my scalp) and probably some penetration enhancers like DMSO, DMI and/or n methyl 2 pyrrolidone. Will report back.

Good plan and good luck!

[PinotQ]

Right guys to update she will not use tablets as to make the percentage so many tablets would need to be used and the cost would be way too high.

She trying her best and has contacted all 3 companies, one has already said no as it is for research purpose only. Let's be positive as I have asked to try her best in finding a source so this can be made for you guys .

Here is another possible equol supplier: http://www.scbt.com/datasheet-205502-s-equol.html

[NeedHairASAP]

What if she just writes us directions for creating it with versapro?

We could pay her for drafting it.

Then somebody can just order s-equol from china and we can make our own--- if she can't find a US-based supplier and wont use a foreign supplier.

[FeelsBad]

Any updates on this?

[Jazz1]

I will email them on monday to see if they have had any luck with the labs.

[Hairismylife]

Can I lower my RU dosage if I am on equol?