Pilox Update

[rhysmorgan]

In my opinion there's only one thing worse than hairloss and that are scammers who try to make a buck out of our misery. My mission has always been to expose them, like I exposed Nigam and that's why I just built this website regarding HASCI:

http://www.hasci-exposed.com/

I have no respect for scammers. They're scum of the earth. There's no way I'm going to talk 'nice' about them. That being said, until I was 100% certain Pilox was a scam (when people found out Yoram was selling blood sucking leechers, acupuncture and other scam therapies), I didn't make any single insult to Yoram or VRAF. I'm all for debating without insults. And if a forum visitor still feels offendend, in general just inform the mods and they will help you out by either editing the post or blocking the user.

People like JarJarbinx have defended and promoted dangerous doctors like Nigam, who almost literally killed a patient (by not filtering and directly injecting animal serum), ruined people's hair and donor (ask Tom Vercetti) and almost ruined their lives by implanting grafts upside down. Ask Boldy, his upside down growing grafts are STILL causing infections. Mwamba confirmed these grafts produced ingrown hairs for about 5 cm, how scary is that ...

My point is, if you don't allow criticism on a forum, then all this can become very dangerous and literally can sometimes mean death (Wesley was hospitized after his immune system started attacking himself due to Nigam's animal serum injections). Maybe you don't like my posting style, but my posts sure as hell have made this world a little bit better, by halting scammers like Nigam as soon as possible.

Ah, I'm not saying criticism is wrong. Robust criticism is, as you've pointed out, totally necessary as there are so many scammers. However, you shouldn't shut down someone as a scammer until they've product and evidence released. Then, you can let rip as far as I'm concerned, but I don't think it's helpful to discredit something so strongly before it's been released in any significant form, either commercially or evidentially.

[brunobald]

It was developed by dov ingman a Prof at the university. Both yoram and vraf will confirm this, you can also confirm this by looking at the names on the patent. Erez manor is the other inventor he is a phd student from the same uni. together they formed a company called pilogics, this is the company that employs yoram.

[Arashi]

" For the record I think Yorams past is actually quite good and I disagree that he is involved with scammy treatments.

You can disagree, but it's just a fact that his clinic sells all kinds of scam therapies. Acupuncture, blood sucking leeches, all that kind of stuff. But that wasn't everything, there was several other reasons. BTW, what makes you think it was developed by that university and not by Yoram ? Yoram told himself that he'd developed it.

[NeedHairASAP]

"That being said, until I was 100% certain Pilox was a scam (when people found out Yoram was selling blood sucking leechers, acupuncture and other scam therapies)"

Arashi the fact is Pilox was developed at technion university (http://www.technion.ac.il/) and has very little to do with Yoram. Yoram was charged with taking test measurments and looking after the clients using Pilox So really calling this a scam based on anything Yoram has done in the past is short sighted. For the record I think Yorams past is actually quite good and I disagree that he is involved with scammy treatments.

Arashi also was certain that vraf was involved... and we are now certain he isn't. But arashi doesn't mention that defunct prediction of his...

Also, on top of Bruno's great post,

leeches are used every single day for microscopic surgeries in the united states... so use of leeches isn't medieval... at all. That's not to say I'm lining up to use them as a baldness cure, but to say leeches aren't used in modern times is 100% verifiabley false.

Again, logic is very flawed.

[brunobald]

"That being said, until I was 100% certain Pilox was a scam (when people found out Yoram was selling blood sucking leechers, acupuncture and other scam therapies)"

Arashi the fact is Pilox was developed at technion university (http://www.technion.ac.il/) and has very little to do with Yoram. Yoram was charged with taking test measurments and looking after the clients using Pilox So really calling this a scam based on anything Yoram has done in the past is short sighted. For the record I think Yorams past is actually quite good and I disagree that he is involved with scammy treatments.

[Arashi]

I'm going to regret getting involved in this...but...

Arash, I'm afraid to say he does has a point. You don't argue against something as much as you attempt to shut down discussion of it. Your debating style tends to be spammy and overbearing, when all the evidence has yet to be gathered regarding piloxll. I've noticed you've done it on these boards. I even had to preface some comments as I'd presumed you'd jump all over it. Maybe you should look at how you debate and be a bit more open to minor criticism about your debating style.

In my opinion there's only one thing worse than hairloss and that are scammers who try to make a buck out of our misery. My mission has always been to expose them, like I exposed Nigam and that's why I just built this website regarding HASCI:

http://www.hasci-exposed.com/

I have no respect for scammers. They're scum of the earth. There's no way I'm going to talk 'nice' about them. That being said, until I was 100% certain Pilox was a scam (when people found out Yoram was selling blood sucking leechers, acupuncture and other scam therapies), I didn't make any single insult to Yoram or VRAF. I'm all for debating without insults. And if a forum visitor still feels offendend, in general just inform the mods and they will help you out by either editing the post or blocking the user.

People like JarJarbinx have defended and promoted dangerous doctors like Nigam, who almost literally killed a patient (by not filtering and directly injecting animal serum), ruined people's hair and donor (ask Tom Vercetti) and almost ruined their lives by implanting grafts upside down. Ask Boldy, his upside down growing grafts are STILL causing infections. Mwamba confirmed these grafts produced ingrown hairs for about 5 cm, how scary is that ...

My point is, if you don't allow criticism on a forum, then all this can become very dangerous and literally can sometimes mean death (Wesley was hospitized after his immune system started attacking himself due to Nigam's animal serum injections). Maybe you don't like my posting style, but my posts sure as hell have made this world a little bit better, by halting scammers like Nigam as soon as possible.

[rhysmorgan]

So now he finally IS admitting he silenced me and that he wanted me to stop posting cause vraf didnt like my criticism. That's at least something. And not sure what 'relentless shit' this idiot is talking about, I never said something insulting, the way he's adressing me now is way worse than I EVER acted there. Monty should get his face ouf of his ass. Yeah that's about Monty's way of discussion. And as far as those quotes, that's why I said:
cause those last posts are from June, after he banned me. This 'big dark power behind the scene' (or how does this nerd call himself nowadays in his signatures) is full of it. PM-ing me he thinks Pilox is scam but at the same time allowing those scammers to keep posting, cause 99% of the page hits for his pathetic little forum were from that Pilox thread. Can people be more hypocritical than that ? I wish him good luck with his shitty forum, 99% of the posts are jarjarbinx there anyway so who cares. I'd rather stay on a forum where ALL opinions are welcome, even if a mod doesn't like them.

Thanks god the bald TRUTH forum exists ...

I'm going to regret getting involved in this...but...

Arash, I'm afraid to say he does has a point. You don't argue against something as much as you attempt to shut down discussion of it. Your debating style tends to be spammy and overbearing, when all the evidence has yet to be gathered regarding piloxll. I've noticed you've done it on these boards. I even had to preface some comments as I'd presumed you'd jump all over it. Maybe you should look at how you debate and be a bit more open to minor criticism about your debating style.

[Arashi]

Monty's response:

"I am not denying I asked you to stop posting in the thread. I did ask you to stop posting in the thread for 2 reasons; a- you are a counterproductive conversation stifling pain in the ass and b; - I wanted vraf to stay so we could get to the truth of the matter, whatever that may be. You were sabotaging that possibility with your relentless shit.

So now he finally IS admitting he silenced me and that he wanted me to stop posting cause vraf didnt like my criticism. That's at least something. And not sure what 'relentless shit' this idiot is talking about, I never said something insulting, the way he's adressing me now is way worse than I EVER acted there. Monty should get his face ouf of his ass. Yeah that's about Monty's way of discussion. And as far as those quotes, that's why I said:

Can he please post some examples, from the time period when I was still active there ?

cause those last posts are from June, after he banned me. This 'big dark power behind the scene' (or how does this nerd call himself nowadays in his signatures) is full of it. PM-ing me he thinks Pilox is scam but at the same time allowing those scammers to keep posting, cause 99% of the page hits for his pathetic little forum were from that Pilox thread. Can people be more hypocritical than that ? I wish him good luck with his shitty forum, 99% of the posts are jarjarbinx there anyway so who cares. I'd rather stay on a forum where ALL opinions are welcome, even if a mod doesn't like them.

Thanks god the bald TRUTH forum exists ...

[Pentarou]

WTF ? "A simple request", he means that he told me that I shouldnt post anymore in the thread. Then he says "If I wanted people silenced then I would have been silent myself would I not?" ? So there he is actually denying he silenced me ? Can you ask him what that 'simple request' then was, according to him ? His literal request was "I am sorry but I am going to have to ask you not to post anymore in the Pilox thread". If he's denying that now, he's even more pathetic than I figured.


Oh yeah ? That's odd, I can't recall one single post of him doing that. Instead he PM-ed me, telling me he agreed it was a scam. He never even said ANYTHING remotely critical at all in public. Too scared his cash cow would run away. Can he please post some examples, from the time period when I was still active there ? Thanks ! He might have become more vocal after he banned me but in that time period when he silenced me he never said anything remotely critical.

Monty's response:

"I am not denying I asked you to stop posting in the thread. I did ask you to stop posting in the thread for 2 reasons; a- you are a counterproductive conversation stifling pain in the ass and b; - I wanted vraf to stay so we could get to the truth of the matter, whatever that may be. You were sabotaging that possibility with your relentless shit.

Here's what I've added to that thread regarding MY critique. Get anyone you like to validate that these are real quotes. BTW this is the end of our discussion cos I think you are just a troll with far more time than myself to kill!"

Agreed. I also think the photos are poor and it's valid critique but casting aspersions is another matter. Arash, final warning bud, seriously.

Even if the hair is the same length photos can look that different anyway. A lot more different in fact with hair the same length. So the fact that the hair is longer just makes it even worse of a comparison. It's literally nothing.
As I say I could take 2 photos that look that different of a persons scalp within seconds of each other by only subtly changing a few factors, or even by pure accident.

I'm sorry guys and I apologise to vraff in advance as I appreciate his taking the time here but....
I can, right this minute take photos of my own scalp in exactly the same light at exactly the same length of hair of course and show you images that present a vastly different picture, good or bad. And that is even if I cut it short like Vraffs
Currently those pics mean absolutely nothing! Zero evidence!
14 years of looking at and taking pics of scalps here. I'm sorry!

[Arashi]

+1000

Monty is right. We're all skeptical of hair loss products but some unintelligent people jump to conclusions before we get a chance to evaluate a product, they try to prevent debate, and they're rude. These are boorish people, and boorish people are the low IQ crowd. Owing to their low IQ they make frequent mistakes and stupid allegations. They aren't smart enough to realize that they're a problem and some of the other posters are foolish enough to believe these unintelligent boors.

LOL, thanks for making me laugh JarJar, I needed that.

[Arashi]

Monty has to say concerning your allegations:

"You were rude and then you flipped your lid when you couldn't take a simple and reasonable request so you were temporarily banned. Then you flipped your lid again. I just wanted conversation to have the chance to evolve to something, god forbid you let us get to a definable conclusion. If I wanted people silenced then I would have been silent myself would I not? The whole time I have openly questioned the legitimacy of the photographs and the the product. Unlike you I have done so in a respectful manner, allowing debate to continue.

WTF ? "A simple request", he means that he told me that I shouldnt post anymore in the thread. Then he says "If I wanted people silenced then I would have been silent myself would I not?" ? So there he is actually denying he silenced me ? Can you ask him what that 'simple request' then was, according to him ? His literal request was "I am sorry but I am going to have to ask you not to post anymore in the Pilox thread". If he's denying that now, he's even more pathetic than I figured.

The whole time I have openly questioned the legitimacy of the photographs and the the product.

Oh yeah ? That's odd, I can't recall one single post of him doing that. Instead he PM-ed me, telling me he agreed it was a scam. He never even said ANYTHING remotely critical at all in public. Too scared his cash cow would run away. Can he please post some examples, from the time period when I was still active there ? Thanks ! He might have become more vocal after he banned me but in that time period when he silenced me he never said anything remotely critical.

[The Alchemist]

OK dude, now I don't understand your logic

You accept Yoram lied to you, at a time where you blindly followed, to the point of claiming that "the results are real, and nothing short of amazing".

Now you claim that "I admit, if there is any improvement, it's not significant." and still support the guy?

No one "prematurely chased Yoram off". The guy lied to us and he ran when he was confronted. When was the time to chase him away according to you? Until several people paid for a snake oil?

The problem is that, you prematurely whitekighted Yoram. If it wasn't for people like you, we would have probably uncovered way more quickly

Seriously dude, you need to stop investing emotionally into whatever snake oil salesman you encounter.

If you want accountability in hair loss forums, let Pilox go and play silent for a while. You attitude is poisonous for the community.
You should also re-read the crap you posted about this fraud so it doesn't happen again

This pretty much sums it up. Needbrainasap was pumping this garbage on all the forums and when confronted with an objective assessment of the situation, he and other true believers, lashed out in religious indignation. Not so coincidentally, its the same crowd that supported Nigam. This thread should be closed as there is nothing worth discussing with Pilox

[nameless]

Monty has to say concerning your allegations:

"You were rude and then you flipped your lid when you couldn't take a simple and reasonable request so you were temporarily banned. Then you flipped your lid again. I just wanted conversation to have the chance to evolve to something, god forbid you let us get to a definable conclusion. If I wanted people silenced then I would have been silent myself would I not? The whole time I have openly questioned the legitimacy of the photographs and the the product. Unlike you I have done so in a respectful manner, allowing debate to continue.

Apart from the measly £5 I charge people to re direct parcels via the U.K I don't make a penny btw. For the millionth time. Probably cancelling parcel delivery too as it's a pain in my balls, much like you!"

+1000

Monty is right. We're all skeptical of hair loss products but some unintelligent people jump to conclusions before we get a chance to evaluate a product, they try to prevent debate, and they're rude. These are boorish people, and boorish people are the low IQ crowd. Owing to their low IQ they make frequent mistakes and stupid allegations. They aren't smart enough to realize that they're a problem and some of the other posters are foolish enough to believe these unintelligent boors.

[Pentarou]

You keep saying I was kicked off the forum for being rude. You made that up. You're on the forum, just send Monty a PM and ask him what happened. I will tell you anyway: Monty, the SAGA admin, sent me a PM there, that he thought Pilox was a scam, however he said that he didnt want me to post anymore, since vraf would leave if I would keep posting (pilox was the best visited thread, it was SAGA's money spinner). Again, I never posted anything rude, vraf just didnt like criticism and the SAGA admins will do ANYTHING to keep people like Yoram and vraf posting, to keep up the page hits for their site. So basically since vraf didnt like criticism, I wasnt allowed to post anymore. (BTW, how hypocrite is that, first admit you agree Pilox is a scam and then ask other's to stop posting that, all to keep the page hits coming).

If you dont believe me, ask Monty. So please stop making up your lies and fantasies about what happened, cause the FACT is that I never said anything rude or whatever, these guys just didnt want criticism and they twisted the SAGA admin's arms by telling him they'd leave if I'd post more criticism.

Again, if you dont believe me, just ask Monty ! And please post his reply here. And STOP making up those damn lies and fantasies about what happened. Thanks.

Monty has to say concerning your allegations:

"You were rude and then you flipped your lid when you couldn't take a simple and reasonable request so you were temporarily banned. Then you flipped your lid again. I just wanted conversation to have the chance to evolve to something, god forbid you let us get to a definable conclusion. If I wanted people silenced then I would have been silent myself would I not? The whole time I have openly questioned the legitimacy of the photographs and the the product. Unlike you I have done so in a respectful manner, allowing debate to continue.

Apart from the measly £5 I charge people to re direct parcels via the U.K I don't make a penny btw. For the millionth time. Probably cancelling parcel delivery too as it's a pain in my balls, much like you!"

[Arashi]

I'm not really sure what you're attacking me for... arashi was kind of rude. He admitted it before. He was kicked off the forum... not by me, but by popular demand. Does it make Arashi a loser? No. Does it make him wrong? No. Does it mean he may have been more incendiary than was needed at that moment? Yes. Is it the end of the world? No. Would we have been better off without chasing Yoram off the forum? I'm would lean towards yes. Is it scary you took the time to 1. comb my posts and 2. distort them to fit your purpose? Yes.

You keep saying I was kicked off the forum for being rude. You made that up. You're on the forum, just send Monty a PM and ask him what happened. I will tell you anyway: Monty, the SAGA admin, sent me a PM there, that he thought Pilox was a scam, however he said that he didnt want me to post anymore, since vraf would leave if I would keep posting (pilox was the best visited thread, it was SAGA's money spinner). Again, I never posted anything rude, vraf just didnt like criticism and the SAGA admins will do ANYTHING to keep people like Yoram and vraf posting, to keep up the page hits for their site. So basically since vraf didnt like criticism, I wasnt allowed to post anymore. (BTW, how hypocrite is that, first admit you agree Pilox is a scam and then ask other's to stop posting that, all to keep the page hits coming).

If you dont believe me, ask Monty. So please stop making up your lies and fantasies about what happened, cause the FACT is that I never said anything rude or whatever, these guys just didnt want criticism and they twisted the SAGA admin's arms by telling him they'd leave if I'd post more criticism.

Again, if you dont believe me, just ask Monty ! And please post his reply here. And STOP making up those damn lies and fantasies about what happened. Thanks.