new method for stem cell differentiation

[joachim]

New method reveals single protein interaction key to embryonic stem cell differentiation

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/06/140605140005.htm?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+sciencedaily+%28Latest+Science+News+--+ScienceDaily%29

something for Dr. Xu I guess as he is trying to convert the iPS cells into dermal papilla cells.
maybe this new method will speed up his research.

[nameless]

New method reveals single protein interaction key to embryonic stem cell differentiation

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/06/140605140005.htm?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+sciencedaily+%28Latest+Science+News+--+ScienceDaily%29

something for Dr. Xu I guess as he is trying to convert the iPS cells into dermal papilla cells.
maybe this new method will speed up his research.

Does Dr. Xu know about this?

[joachim]

Does Dr. Xu know about this?

hard to say. the sooner or later he will definitely hear or read about it.
but i'm too always wondering, if all the researchers get the latest infos somehow automatically or do they also have to read the news like us? i could imagine that researchers have their own special sources, or maybe a kind of network where they get forwarded the info. but what if not? what if such news doesn't get noticed by some researchers? would be a pity. i think researchers also have to be proactive and read as much as possible about the latest medical discoveries.

maybe sdsurfin should ask Dr. Xu about this as a general question. would be interested to hear if they have some automatism to receive the latest news.
and we can also ask Dr. Gardner about it.

[walrus]

hard to say. the sooner or later he will definitely hear or read about it.
but i'm too always wondering, if all the researchers get the latest infos somehow automatically or do they also have to read the news like us? i could imagine that researchers have their own special sources, or maybe a kind of network where they get forwarded the info. but what if not? what if such news doesn't get noticed by some researchers? would be a pity. i think researchers also have to be proactive and read as much as possible about the latest medical discoveries.

maybe sdsurfin should ask Dr. Xu about this as a general question. would be interested to hear if they have some automatism to receive the latest news.
and we can also ask Dr. Gardner about it.

There are plenty of services that allow you to subscribe to topics and alert you whenever a paper is published in the field (Google Scholar for example). It is very unlikely that a relevant paper goes unnoticed by someone working in a closely related area (the first thing one does is embark on an extensive literature review). Often groups are in close communication (collaborating, or have contacts from conferences etc) and are ahead of the publishing curve.

[joachim]

There are plenty of services that allow you to subscribe to topics and alert you whenever a paper is published in the field (Google Scholar for example). It is very unlikely that a relevant paper goes unnoticed by someone working in a closely related area (the first thing one does is embark on an extensive literature review). Often groups are in close communication (collaborating, or have contacts from conferences etc) and are ahead of the publishing curve.

i hope so.

however, would be nice to verify it for some cases.

[nameless]

i hope so.

however, would be nice to verify it for some cases.

I agree.

I had a friend who was dying a few years ago of a disease and I talked to his attending doctor about a new treatment that was available to the general public already. The doctor said that my friend's condition was too far advanced for that treatment to work. He said that the medicine does not work in advanced cases like my friend's. I told him that a very recent study showed that the medicine does work in a small percentage of the people who have advanced cases. He told me he would look into it. He later told me that I was right, he thanked me for bringing the information to his attention, and he put my friend on the treatment. The treatment didn't work and my friend died. But that's not the point. The point is that my friend's doctor was a teaching doctor at a big university. He worked at the University of Arizona Medical Center. He taught at the college and practiced at the hospital at the time.

The thing is that these scientists have other lives besides their research and they can't keep up with everything. The study was out on medline for about 3months and the doctor did not know about it.

If someone is in email contact with Dr. Xu I think that person should let Dr. Xu know about this.

[joachim]

i'm sorry for your friend. i also experienced some similar cases. many doctors don't give a shit about keeping up with the latest findings, medications, therapies, etc.
sometimes it seems to me that once they reach a certain age they're not interested in learning new stuff anymore. they just keep doing their same work for decades. like many of you also noticed, there are only few general practitionars and even dermatologists who know about hairloss treatments at all. all they know is prescribe Fin and Minox but they even don't know about long term sides of Fin.
however, i think the situation for researchers is a bit different. i hope they are eager enough to keep up with all the latest discoveries. but of course, there are definitely also many researchers where this isn't the case.

[joachim]

sdsurfin, if you read this:

are you still in contact with Dr. Xu?
is it possible to forward some questions to him?
i'm interested in his epithelial conversion process via iPS cells and his further steps with DP cells, especially in terms of gene expression. i can't stop thinking about the crowdfunding idea. i think it would be good to have more parallel ways to get to the cure.

what if all researchers are trying to improve DP gene expression and inductivity over the next years but nobody is able to achieve it? what if, in 3 years, we are at the same point as we are today? or what if they are able to achieve more gene expression (e.g. 70% or more) but it turns out that it's still not enough. what if all those culturing techniques doesn't lead to success? then we're really screwed and lost again some years for nothing. and if you think of it: the chance that this could happen is really there.

so i think, the parallel approach by creating unlimited DP cells from iPS cells seems promising. i also don't see why Dr. Xu won't be able to figure out the right conversion within 2 or 3 years. basically it's trial and error with several different proteins/doses/timeframes.

however, there is still a hurdle: Xu mentioned he created the iPS stemcells by gene editing, which is no applicable solution. in the meantime, someone has also to work on a method to create iPS cells. the recently popped up method (converting blood with some kind of acid) was officially retracted, thus proven to be fake.
so, someone has to find a method for this (or does anybody know if there is a legal method of creating iPS cells already?).
however, this is a generel problem on which many scientists all over the world are working already (as it is not only hairloss releated). creating iPS cells is the crucial basis for every future stem cell therapy.

would be good if we can forward some questions to him or maybe he is willing to answer some questions directly here in the forum, like Dr. Gardner.

at first i thought it's not that interesting anymore in crowdfunding Dr. Xu's method but the more i think about it i get to the conclusion that this is a very good backup plan if all other researchers fail.
however, if in the next months it turns out that the chinese or some other labs are already able to culture DP cells with 100% expression then, of course, the crowdfunding step wouldn't make that much sense anymore, or would lose priority respectivelly. on the other hand, it should be the ultimate goal for science to be able of creating EVERY specific cell type somewhen in future anyway.

[sdsurfin]

!!

sdsurfin, if you read this:

are you still in contact with Dr. Xu?
is it possible to forward some questions to him?
i'm interested in his epithelial conversion process via iPS cells and his further steps with DP cells, especially in terms of gene expression. i can't stop thinking about the crowdfunding idea. i think it would be good to have more parallel ways to get to the cure.

what if all researchers are trying to improve DP gene expression and inductivity over the next years but nobody is able to achieve it? what if, in 3 years, we are at the same point as we are today? or what if they are able to achieve more gene expression (e.g. 70% or more) but it turns out that it's still not enough. what if all those culturing techniques doesn't lead to success? then we're really screwed and lost again some years for nothing. and if you think of it: the chance that this could happen is really there.

so i think, the parallel approach by creating unlimited DP cells from iPS cells seems promising. i also don't see why Dr. Xu won't be able to figure out the right conversion within 2 or 3 years. basically it's trial and error with several different proteins/doses/timeframes.

however, there is still a hurdle: Xu mentioned he created the iPS stemcells by gene editing, which is no applicable solution. in the meantime, someone has also to work on a method to create iPS cells. the recently popped up method (converting blood with some kind of acid) was officially retracted, thus proven to be fake.
so, someone has to find a method for this (or does anybody know if there is a legal method of creating iPS cells already?).
however, this is a generel problem on which many scientists all over the world are working already (as it is not only hairloss releated). creating iPS cells is the crucial basis for every future stem cell therapy.

would be good if we can forward some questions to him or maybe he is willing to answer some questions directly here in the forum, like Dr. Gardner.

at first i thought it's not that interesting anymore in crowdfunding Dr. Xu's method but the more i think about it i get to the conclusion that this is a very good backup plan if all other researchers fail.
however, if in the next months it turns out that the chinese or some other labs are already able to culture DP cells with 100% expression then, of course, the crowdfunding step wouldn't make that much sense anymore, or would lose priority respectivelly. on the other hand, it should be the ultimate goal for science to be able of creating EVERY specific cell type somewhen in future anyway.

There's no way in hell I'm suggesting to Dr. Xu that he should go on this forum. most of the questions on here are borderline braindead, and people keep asking the same stuff over and over seemingly without reading (or maybe understanding) what dr. gardner said. I'm not surprised he hasn't been on here in a while. As far as what Xu is doing, I think it will be more effective that trying to expand DP cells in culture and then re-instating their gene expression. O bviously he thinks the same, but we could both be wrong.

I think crowdfunding just about anyone would be a doable and useful thing for this forum to do. I just read an article that said that 1 out of 5 people in britain said they would want to see a baldness cure if they could choose one thing for future experimentation to bring (out of any possible future device, tech, etc)!!! a ton of people want this to happen, which is why it's absolute bollocks when someone on here say that society is trying to keep a cure away, researchers dont want it etc etc. Humans are vain and people hate losing their hair, it's just a very hard thing to fix. lots of things involved as we've seen.

I'm keeping Dr. Xu posted with those videos, and I'm sure he's aware of all the stem cell news and techniques coming to fruition. I saw an article yesterday about how they figured out how to make liver cells turn back into stem cells (the liver is a very regenerative organ). I will ask Dr. Gardner and dr xu whether they read this and if they think it has any correlation. These guys are pros though, we're not gonna blow their minds with our knowledge, the best we can do is try to raise money and support. I don't spend a ton of time on here cause i have a life to live, but there are some guys on here who, if they spent a fraction of the time that they spend on here instead setting up a charity for hair loss or fundraising effort etc, would accomplish so much. Dr. Gardner outlined some very useful ways to garner support and money.

I'm still waiting on Xu to hear back about crowdfunding from his university. I honestly think that the germans and the japanese are the most advanced, with perhaps dr gardner and dr xu in second. it doesnt seem like the germans or japanese are lacking funding. I think getting money to one of the american or british university teams would be hugely useful. depending on the amount raised, it could be split between the two. Crowdfunding a project like follica is stupid. that is a company that is in charge of securing their own funding, and if they cant do it, it means there's a good reason. you dont throw more money behind bad money. basic business. the goal is to get people enthused about the road to a real and permanent cure, which right now seems to be very realistically taking shape in the form of lab grown follicles.

[walrus]

like many of you also noticed, there are only few general practitionars and even dermatologists who know about hairloss treatments at all. all they know is prescribe Fin and Minox but they even don't know about long term sides of Fin.
however, i think the situation for researchers is a bit different. i hope they are eager enough to keep up with all the latest discoveries.

Yes, a clinical doctor has a very different role to a researcher with a PhD.

[Arashi]

There's no way in hell I'm suggesting to Dr. Xu that he should go on this forum. most of the questions on here are borderline braindead, and people keep asking the same stuff over and over seemingly without reading (or maybe understanding) what dr. gardner said. I'm not surprised he hasn't been on here in a while.

Man, tell me about it. People like JarJar posting 3-4 questions in a row, most of them either even not interesting or asked before. I warned about that: http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showpos...6&postcount=37 but he just kept doing it. It wasn't him alone though, some others even posted way dumber questions. But yeah I can totally understand why dr Gardner left. On the other hand, we got all the info we needed, thanks to interesting questions from people like you, Joachim, JJJJR's etc, so it's been a great run.

[sdsurfin]

Man, tell me about it. People like JarJar posting 3-4 questions in a row, most of them either even not interesting or asked before. I warned about that: http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showpos...6&postcount=37 but he just kept doing it. It wasn't him alone though, some others even posted way dumber questions. But yeah I can totally understand why dr Gardner left. On the other hand, we got all the info we needed, thanks to interesting questions from people like you, Joachim, JJJJR's etc, so it's been a great run.

whoever "nameless" is needs to take a break for sure. boring me to death with redundancy and absolute lack of comprehension for anything that has been said. baldness is the least of so many of these peoples' worries.

[joachim]

There's no way in hell I'm suggesting to Dr. Xu that he should go on this forum. most of the questions on here are borderline braindead, and people keep asking the same stuff over and over seemingly without reading (or maybe understanding) what dr. gardner said. I'm not surprised he hasn't been on here in a while. As far as what Xu is doing, I think it will be more effective that trying to expand DP cells in culture and then re-instating their gene expression. O bviously he thinks the same, but we could both be wrong.

I think crowdfunding just about anyone would be a doable and useful thing for this forum to do. I just read an article that said that 1 out of 5 people in britain said they would want to see a baldness cure if they could choose one thing for future experimentation to bring (out of any possible future device, tech, etc)!!! a ton of people want this to happen, which is why it's absolute bollocks when someone on here say that society is trying to keep a cure away, researchers dont want it etc etc. Humans are vain and people hate losing their hair, it's just a very hard thing to fix. lots of things involved as we've seen.

I'm keeping Dr. Xu posted with those videos, and I'm sure he's aware of all the stem cell news and techniques coming to fruition. I saw an article yesterday about how they figured out how to make liver cells turn back into stem cells (the liver is a very regenerative organ). I will ask Dr. Gardner and dr xu whether they read this and if they think it has any correlation. These guys are pros though, we're not gonna blow their minds with our knowledge, the best we can do is try to raise money and support. I don't spend a ton of time on here cause i have a life to live, but there are some guys on here who, if they spent a fraction of the time that they spend on here instead setting up a charity for hair loss or fundraising effort etc, would accomplish so much. Dr. Gardner outlined some very useful ways to garner support and money.

I'm still waiting on Xu to hear back about crowdfunding from his university. I honestly think that the germans and the japanese are the most advanced, with perhaps dr gardner and dr xu in second. it doesnt seem like the germans or japanese are lacking funding. I think getting money to one of the american or british university teams would be hugely useful. depending on the amount raised, it could be split between the two. Crowdfunding a project like follica is stupid. that is a company that is in charge of securing their own funding, and if they cant do it, it means there's a good reason. you dont throw more money behind bad money. basic business. the goal is to get people enthused about the road to a real and permanent cure, which right now seems to be very realistically taking shape in the form of lab grown follicles.

ok, so we agree that Dr. Xu has a good approach. i think it would be easy to crowdfund him, even if it takes half a year or so...

but there are currently 2 crucial questions here to which we should have an answer (i hope you can forward that to Dr. Xu):

1. is he absolutely sure that if he is able to create DP cells from iPS, that those DP cells then have 100% gene expression and their inductive potential like freshly isolated cells? i guess, the DP cells still will have to be assembled into simple 3D spheroids to create an inductive structure, but we're talking about simple structures here, without coating tricks and whatelse. but is Dr. Xu REALLY sure that the gene expression is 100% then?

2. is there a legal method today to create iPS cells or will this be a showstopper unless someone figures out how to get iPS cells? is gene editing allowed? (it's done in vitro, so maybe the legal issues are more relaxed then, no?)
Dr. Xu should please give us a short overview on this. pricing shouldn't be relevant in the first place. we just need to know if feasibility is there.

if we have positive answers to those 2 questions, then nothing should stop us anymore to crowdfund this approach. beside replicel i actually have the most faith in this approach.
and like you said, the other teams seem to have enough funding already, so they will do their job anyway. and Cots is out of the game. once this nightmare puzzle is solved by other teams then Dr. Cots's work will be rendered useless anyway.

[sdsurfin]

ok, so we agree that Dr. Xu has a good approach. i think it would be easy to crowdfund him, even if it takes half a year or so...

but there are currently 2 crucial questions here to which we should have an answer (i hope you can forward that to Dr. Xu):

1. is he absolutely sure that if he is able to create DP cells from iPS, that those DP cells then have 100% gene expression and their inductive potential like freshly isolated cells? i guess, the DP cells still will have to be assembled into simple 3D spheroids to create an inductive structure, but we're talking about simple structures here, without coating tricks and whatelse. but is Dr. Xu REALLY sure that the gene expression is 100% then?

2. is there a legal method today to create iPS cells or will this be a showstopper unless someone figures out how to get iPS cells? is gene editing allowed? (it's done in vitro, so maybe the legal issues are more relaxed then, no?)
Dr. Xu should please give us a short overview on this. pricing shouldn't be relevant in the first place. we just need to know if feasibility is there.

if we have positive answers to those 2 questions, then nothing should stop us anymore to crowdfund this approach. beside replicel i actually have the most faith in this approach.
and like you said, the other teams seem to have enough funding already, so they will do their job anyway. and Cots is out of the game. once this nightmare puzzle is solved by other teams then Dr. Cots's work will be rendered useless anyway.

I can answer those for you.

1) No, no one is sure about anything. No one has ever created DP cells from stem cells, so no one knows how they will act or if they will be the same as freshly isolated cells. Because they are not freshly isolated cells, they will probably not be the same. However, if it works this could be a good way to make the many many DP cells that are needed to make new follicles. they will probably still need to be coaxed into constructs, and I think no matter how we get DP cells that work, that they will have to be part of a larger organ germ that includes epithelial and possible fat cells. Xu has made hair inducing epithelial cells already, and with funding can probably make DP cells. Once able to do this, the other teams could add that as an option, and will hopefully be far enough knowing how to put all the parts together. No one knows if multiplying DP cells fast in culture and then restoring them will ever work. No one knows if creating DP cells from scratch will create DP cells that work properly either. But both approaches should be tried. In any case, the goal is to find the BEST, the EASIEST, and the CHEAPEST way to do things, and no one knows what that is yet.

2) Xu is already making Epithelial cells from IPS cells, so I assume this is not an issue. He is in the USA and is making EP cells from IPS cells, so I assume it's legal and they have that covered. Also, every day they are figuring out new ways to make stem cells, the other day they figured out how to make stem cells from liver cells (reverting them). With enough money, i'm confident (and xu sounds like he is too) that a whole follicle can be created in a lab. Whether that happens in a decade or sooner or later depends on money and staff. right now people like Xu and gardner and Cots dont have enough money to make this happen quickly, and they have all stated such.

[walrus]

Cots is out of the game. once this nightmare puzzle is solved by other teams then Dr. Cots's work will be rendered useless anyway.

Hardly. A low cost topical to stop you losing your hair in the first place (i.e. a PGD2 blocker) will always have its place. To call an academics work 'useless' is also short sighted. It could have implications in other areas outside of MPB.