Discussion of Dr. Gardner's responses

[sdsurfin]

And forgive the typos I'm on my phone. ****in autocorrect.

[sdsurfin]

Trials exist for a reason, and yes they suck and are probably too long, but no one owes us anything. I'm down to help speed things up , but acting like a spoiled brat about your first world problems is only going to scare real researchers and investors away. Life isn't fair. No one is going to change the FDA anytime soon, so let's just help researchers in any way we can. Money talks. The cure is 20 years away because that's where the science is. Treatments have not come out because they weren't that good and were a bad investment. Such is life, but connecting people and organizing funds always helps progress along.

[sdsurfin]

That is straight up denial of a problem that reaches far beyond your straw man argument of 'tabloids'. You know very well about the social perceptions of bald/balding men. While YOU may not be dealing with them, others definitely are and will depend on a number of things within that culture. Unfortunately for me, I am in an extremely superficial and judgemental part of the world (north america) and in a city that only heightens these negative views on baldness; Toronto.

You say life doesn't owe me hair or happiness or scientific progress. First, if my taxes (or someone elses) are paying for the research done... then what are the taxpayers owed? Happiness is a moot point, thats up to me to make but those around me have other plans for bald men and I've already stated that their intentions are to keep those less fortunate within their position (positional good theory).

It's interesting how you get pissed about someone calling out the social stigma against baldness but youre NOT pissed about antiquated regulations from governing bodies?

What is it that you plan to do if and when the regulations hold you back from a treatment and satisfactory life? You're on this forum spending some amount of time searching for answers and a future but are unwilling to actually DO something about the timelines?

Why is such mediocrity celebrated today?

Ridiculous. First of all nothing is holding me back from a satisfactory life. Least of all baldness. Secondly I live in North America too and not one of my bald friends has ever been held back by their baldness. They all have great jobs, great relationships,and happy lives. In fact , in society as a whole, I see no correlation between baldness and success. Not even in Hollywood, which is perhaps the one career track where losing your hair might hurt you. But even then it's questionable, ask mark strong or Paul giamatti or bill Murray, it doesn't really matter how bald you are, there are always roles to fill.

I live in Brooklyn, and when I go out in the street I see many more bald guys than guys with perfect hair, and again the attractiveness if their mates, quality of their jobs, etc has nothing to do with their hair. One if the mist happy dudes I know is a one armed Chinese chiropractor with a lovely wife and thinning hair. Ask him if his deficiencies have ever held him back from being happy or made him angry at the world. That's a man I can respect. I can respect Desmond and stash I and people on herd who are interested in making a difference and aren't particularly happy with baldness, but live their lives and are happy regardless.

My comment to you was not a put down. It's an observation that something is seriously wrong with your thinking, and also borderline delusional as far as what society owes you. If I was gonna rail against everything that the government should do with my tax money then is lose my mind. I understand people who are in their teens sounding like you do,but a grown man should know that there's no conspiracy against bald men, I mean for gods sake mist men go bald, literally half my friends have no hair and there us no correlation to the respect they receive. Two iof my exes who are smoking hot girls go out with slick bald guys now. No one is keeping you down but yourself.

Lastly. I'm on this forum because I'm interested in the science and progress, and I think it'll be cool if I get new hair later in life. I also think that people can make a difference in changing the system and getting things moving, but my attitude and outlook is not juvenile and I'm not mad at anyone for not curing baldness. Science moves at the pace that it moves and I'm not gonna cry about it or tell people who work hard that their progress is "unacceptable". And I'm certainly not gonna let losing hair make my life "hell". You don't know what hell is bro. My father is schizophrenic , my friend died when she was 21, my friend lost an arm. Lots of people can't feed their children, have debilitating diseases,?have to work as prostitutes, are jomeless, have drug addictions etc etc. hair loss is nothing in comparison to most real problems. That's why you don't get the sympathy you look for, not because people don't think baldness sucks. Women understand that men go bald and most men hi bald themselves, no one has a conspiracy to keep you down. My bald friends are among the mist lived if all the people I know. Even the ones that live in los Angeles . And honestly I find you insulting and infantile for the garbage you spout in here that suggests otherwise. The only people who disrespect people godfather looks are imbeciles, and thru mean nothing to me. The real problems out there are problems that can actually damage your life. And even those people don't whine and rail at the unfairness of things.

[hellouser]

Where is this 'cure' being held back by regulations? Much research still needs to be done first.

The timelines required are too long. I've asked this before but NOBODY has an answer for this;

If the typical timeline for a new drug or procedure to go commercial is anywhere from 10-17 years, what does 17 years of safety trials (and efficacy of course) tell you that 5 years does not?

Perhaps the timelines aren't a big deal right now with a full out 'cure' but there are treatments that COULD have come to fruition before; RU and NEOSH to start.

Follica is still buried with trials to complete.... stuck at Phase II and god knows if they've started Phase III (Cotsarelis only stated they finished Phase II last year). Aderans got bogged down as well and their funding got pulled... im sure the length and costs of the trials played a part. I dont doubt many of us would have gone for an Aderans procedure even if the results weren't 'cure' worthy.

ANYTHING at this point is much needed, we've been stuck with Finasteride as the best option (albeit a shitty one) for the last 20 years. It's long overdue for a superior treatment.

If anyone thinks 10+ years is okay to wait, then why bother being on this forum so far behind a treatment?

Shit, some people say the cure is 20-30 years away... you can't help but actually give those naysayers SOME credit.

[walrus]

It's interesting how you get pissed about someone calling out the social stigma against baldness but youre NOT pissed about antiquated regulations from governing bodies?

Where is this 'cure' being held back by regulations? Much research still needs to be done first.

[hellouser]

You need to go to a shrink bro. Urgently. That social acceptance bs you spout is not only unhealthy and untrue, but bad for other people to read and internalize. I have many cue ball bald friends who are accepted just fine, and still have very strong identities. The only "society" that barely is down on baldness are the tabloids and Hollywood. That's what you base your life on? Sad. I know more balding and bald furs than hairy ones, and no one has ever had a problem with acceptance. Even the ones who went bald in college. If you act inferior, people will treat you that way. If it wasn't your hair it would be something else, you have issues that go beyond hairloss and need to recognize that. Losing hair blows but strong people don't let it rob their confidence or happiness. My dad is a doctor and he sees worse stuff happen to people on the daily and they move on and deal with it. Life doesn't owe you hair or happiness or scientific progress so stop whining like it does. A good treatment for baldness might never come. I am balding and go to work and enjoy the day and still get girls and aspire to greater things than being gorgeous. Everyone ages and gets ugly, by the time you get your hair back you'll be middle aged and ugly anyway, so who cares, go out and learn other things and for gods sake go see a psychiatrist cause man...

That is straight up denial of a problem that reaches far beyond your straw man argument of 'tabloids'. You know very well about the social perceptions of bald/balding men. While YOU may not be dealing with them, others definitely are and will depend on a number of things within that culture. Unfortunately for me, I am in an extremely superficial and judgemental part of the world (north america) and in a city that only heightens these negative views on baldness; Toronto.

You say life doesn't owe me hair or happiness or scientific progress. First, if my taxes (or someone elses) are paying for the research done... then what are the taxpayers owed? Happiness is a moot point, thats up to me to make but those around me have other plans for bald men and I've already stated that their intentions are to keep those less fortunate within their position (positional good theory).

It's interesting how you get pissed about someone calling out the social stigma against baldness but youre NOT pissed about antiquated regulations from governing bodies?

What is it that you plan to do if and when the regulations hold you back from a treatment and satisfactory life? You're on this forum spending some amount of time searching for answers and a future but are unwilling to actually DO something about the timelines?

Why is such mediocrity celebrated today?

[joachim]

You need to go to a shrink bro. Urgently. That social acceptance bs you spout is not only unhealthy and untrue, but bad for other people to read and internalize. I have many cue ball bald friends who are accepted just fine, and still have very strong identities. The only "society" that barely is down on baldness are the tabloids and Hollywood. That's what you base your life on? Sad. I know more balding and bald furs than hairy ones, and no one has ever had a problem with acceptance. Even the ones who went bald in college. If you act inferior, people will treat you that way. If it wasn't your hair it would be something else, you have issues that go beyond hairloss and need to recognize that. Losing hair blows but strong people don't let it rob their confidence or happiness. My dad is a doctor and he sees worse stuff happen to people on the daily and they move on and deal with it. Life doesn't owe you hair or happiness or scientific progress so stop whining like it does. A good treatment for baldness might never come. I am balding and go to work and enjoy the day and still get girls and aspire to greater things than being gorgeous. Everyone ages and gets ugly, by the time you get your hair back you'll be middle aged and ugly anyway, so who cares, go out and learn other things and for gods sake go see a psychiatrist cause man...

man, why are you writing in this forum at all? you seem not interested in a faster cure. at least you accepted what Xu told you and that the cure is still 1, 2 or even 3 decades away.
so why wasting your time here? of course hellouser is right that treatments should come faster and not be held back by stupid FDA phases and other roadblocks.
he's amongst the only ones who thinks differently, and trying to change things. he invests a lot of time and effort and is even working on a crowdfunding campain. i'm pretty sure he can do this job very well.

it's people like you who give up early and accept things how they are. not everyone is a fighter. stop bullsh**** aroung here if you don't have some useful information. it's really getting annoying.

[hellouser]

That is something I can agree on even 10 years is in my opinion just too long


Like most hair loss sufferers my life went from heaven to a hell.

Ow hellouser I feel for you because from what I heard about toronto is ehhm yeah, they say it is full of wannabes, idiots and mean people....but that is just what I heard so I don't say it is true.

Something has to change for that 10 year time frame... that's just horrendous. Japan already had some reform... which county is next?

Truthfully, the only way I see ourselves getting around that 10 year wait (unacceptable) is if we do things ourselves;

Fund a team of docs to open up a clinic in a jurisdiction that is NOT bound by paralyzing regulations.

[sdsurfin]

10+ years is way too long. My life has gone to shit years ago, I can't imagine what another 10+ years will do to me and others. It really hasn't been a life worth living for me lately, being robbed of my identity and social acceptance.

That 10 year number absolutely MUST be reduced.... somehow.

You need to go to a shrink bro. Urgently. That social acceptance bs you spout is not only unhealthy and untrue, but bad for other people to read and internalize. I have many cue ball bald friends who are accepted just fine, and still have very strong identities. The only "society" that barely is down on baldness are the tabloids and Hollywood. That's what you base your life on? Sad. I know more balding and bald furs than hairy ones, and no one has ever had a problem with acceptance. Even the ones who went bald in college. If you act inferior, people will treat you that way. If it wasn't your hair it would be something else, you have issues that go beyond hairloss and need to recognize that. Losing hair blows but strong people don't let it rob their confidence or happiness. My dad is a doctor and he sees worse stuff happen to people on the daily and they move on and deal with it. Life doesn't owe you hair or happiness or scientific progress so stop whining like it does. A good treatment for baldness might never come. I am balding and go to work and enjoy the day and still get girls and aspire to greater things than being gorgeous. Everyone ages and gets ugly, by the time you get your hair back you'll be middle aged and ugly anyway, so who cares, go out and learn other things and for gods sake go see a psychiatrist cause man...

[2young2bald]

10+ years is way too long. My life has gone to shit years ago, I can't imagine what another 10+ years will do to me and others. It really hasn't been a life worth living for me lately, being robbed of my identity and social acceptance.

That 10 year number absolutely MUST be reduced.... somehow.

That is something I can agree on even 10 years is in my opinion just too long


Like most hair loss sufferers my life went from heaven to a hell.

Ow hellouser I feel for you because from what I heard about toronto is ehhm yeah, they say it is full of wannabes, idiots and mean people....but that is just what I heard so I don't say it is true.

[hellouser]

Hope that people like dr Aaron Gardner have a breakthrough to report in the next few years. And while it most probably would take at least another 5-8 years before we can reap the fruits of such breakthrough, it would be damn nice to know it's coming !!

10+ years is way too long. My life has gone to shit years ago, I can't imagine what another 10+ years will do to me and others. It really hasn't been a life worth living for me lately, being robbed of my identity and social acceptance.

That 10 year number absolutely MUST be reduced.... somehow.

[Arashi]

BTW, if you care about the way you look (and you do, otherwise you wouldnt be here), then quite smoking anyway man ! Really, it's the worst thing you can do to your skin (together with having it sunburned). You're 25 now, in 5 years you will start to see the damage of smoking in your face, believe me, heavy smokers at age 30 will see their facial skin deteriorate quickly.

[Arashi]

Wikipedia has quite a good summary of what's currently known about AGA:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgenic_alopecia

You say you smoke, as you can find on that page there's a (slight) relationship found between hairloss and smoking. I think living a healthy life in general might be somewhat beneficial but really, it's mostly just about genetics man ... Even if you're in a family where AGA is not common, like yours, it's still possible to have those genes that make you vulnerable. In short, there's really not that much you can do unfortunately.

Current available treatments known to work are Finasteride and Minoxidil. Both with a nasty set of possible side effects but it might be worth trying, everybody has to make that decision for themselves. Other than that one can only hope ... Hope that people like dr Aaron Gardner have a breakthrough to report in the next few years. And while it most probably would take at least another 5-8 years before we can reap the fruits of such breakthrough, it would be damn nice to know it's coming !!

[youngin]

you are joking right? This is the kind of tin foil hat view that will scare any serious researcher away from this forum. Read wikipedia or some of the primary literature if you want to understand the causes of mpb. Don't pretend that the cause is unknown just because it is not presented to you.

dont touch my head im a nw6!

[amberjack]

Really, who cares about AGA if you can get an unlimited amount of new follicles that are pretty much AGA resistant (exactly like the follicles in your donor zone

i care because i bealive that there is another way...i dont think that our interest is to wait 10 years more just to clone and puncture ( rape ) our scalp with 30000 follicles...thats like you say who cares if we have to clone ourselfs, heads or just scalp with follicles when you will have full head of hair...

and yes i am deppresed about aga like you and others but i am angry about this way fixing the problem...

also my friend who thinks that everything is explained in literature about aga please be nice and explain us why aga starts...

explain me why my aga started 27.05. 2003 when i was only 15 and half..
i was coloring my hair from summer 2002 and about 19.02. 2003 3 months before aga started i wanted to remove black hair color with hydrogen... i did procedure with hydrogen 2 times in 1 hour because first time was not good...i remember my mother teelling me oh my good you will lose your hair before 20 if ou keep doing this with hydrogen..

about that time i started to smoke cigarretes and until today i smoke about 1 pack a day..

my family is very big..if you count cousins we are like 70 people and nobody has aga...only 1 fathers cousin has aga and is like nw 6 but he has 2 sons twins who are 30 old ow and no aga..

am now like diffuse nw 4
i eat like in restaurant traditional freshly cooked meals...
i did blood and thyroid tests ad everything is ok...
i had meningitis 2 times when i was 10 and 16 after aga sou i doubth any correlation..

sou smart guy please explain me y literature...

arashi i am just telling that this is what we need...(answers-solutions-move on with life)

sorry for hijacking tread..this is really my last post...i cannt do anything from my room, you needer sou me you where right we have to move on and will hear aot something ether when it comes...sorry again and thanks for understanding my anger...