Sm04554

[Haircure]

I would love to see some examples of a more than 10% increase in 3 months or less on Fin or DUT I have never read anything on that.

and Im not talking about 1 or 2 extreme cases, show me what the average increase is for FIN and DUT after 3 months, then tell me this stuff is useless.

youre telling me a drug that after 130 days(a little over 4 months) shows a positive trajectory is not good enough? Do you think the drug will only get worse after that, why wouldnt we assume the drug continues to work when there was a statistical increase 40 days after discontinuation

I'm actually laughing that you are calling a drug that has a clear positive trajectory and shows growth in it's initial stage 'nowhere close'

If they simply maintained in months 6-12 I would agree, but the statistics show that the opposite should be true and they havent even tested what happens when they continue the dosage.

I would also like to add that you are attacking a drug that is showing an increase in haircount on late stage NW4+ cases not early stage cases which would normally show much more response to drugs.

Has any drug including FIN, DUT or Minoxidil ever shown a statistical effect on late stage balding?

Well first off I figured that since you've been a member longer than I have you'd probably have read the multiple success stories on this very forum or have read at least a few studies published regarding the effectiveness and efficacy of finasteride, Dutasteride, and minoxidil. I guess this is not the case.


I don't have links to those studies saved, but one can easily find then on forums or on google and yes these drugs have been effective on higher norwoods and are much better options that Sm04554. Also these are not extreme cases as you may believe, you can check out this link which shows just how well just Fin and minox work, and keep in mind these don't contain pictures of Dutasteride users which is a more powerful drug

http://www.bernsteinmedical.com/medical-treatment/patient-photos/

Like many more educated members regarding hairloss can tell you (ex Swooping) these results are not better than the treatments that we have even though we wish it to be true.

[Haircure]

Don't know why you keep reffering in percentages as it doesn't make sense. And it was 10 hairs +/-6 on average, after 135 days, on a 1 cm2; 90 days usage.

It does make sense because when looking at the hair count increase for the 0.15% it shows an increase of 10 hairs, and so 10/104(which is the initial hair count) = 10% change

[Haircure]

How about this as a reason for cautious optimism: What if the regrowth rate never becomes signifcant for a high percentage of users, but none of them see a decrease in hair? That alone would be a product I'd buy. Far-fetched?

Well isn't that basically what finasteride does but better? It sucks that Fin, dut and minox is all we have considering what effect they can have on our body, but I've seen this scenario time and time again. A potential new treatment comes out or is in clinical trials and some people get over-hyped (often aggressively) then after a few months or even a year people realize it wasn't what they thought it was even though they read the reports or the results, but it was their hope and optimism that led them to want it to be the cure.

[allTheGoodNamesAreTaken]

Well isn't that basically what finasteride does but better? It sucks that Fin, dut and minox is all we have considering what effect they can have on our body, but I've seen this scenario time and time again. A potential new treatment comes out or is in clinical trials and some people get over-hyped (often aggressively) then after a few months or even a year people realize it wasn't what they thought it was even though they read the reports or the results, but it was their hope and optimism that led them to want it to be the cure.

The difference would be not messing around with your hormones, which stops many from ever bothering with fun. Plus fin just doesn't work for some people. So an another option would be useful.

[dutchguyhanging]

The difference would be not messing around with your hormones, which stops many from ever bothering with fun. Plus fin just doesn't work for some people. So an another option would be useful.

you guys never learn... i mean never ever... first of what do you know if this treatment has no side effects? maybe they have even worse?

Secondly, 10% hair increase is even worse than what fin has pitched in trails. They were around 13%...
and some people, actually alot of us saying fin gives us no growth... how do you expect SM will give you any growth??
Third, if you can not reserve balding then u r not stopping it either. So it is like ageing, either you reverse it or you age.. slowing down would not work. Well fin does that already even though they claim it gives regrowth.

In sum, these numbers are no good/better than fin. in other words total waste of time and money spent on this product.It is better to stop investing at this point and let it go

[dm90]

you guys never learn... i mean never ever... first of what do you know if this treatment has no side effects? maybe they have even worse?

Secondly, 10% hair increase is even worse than what fin has pitched in trails. They were around 13%...
and some people, actually alot of us saying fin gives us no growth... how do you expect SM will give you any growth??
Third, if you can not reserve balding then u r not stopping it either. So it is like ageing, either you reverse it or you age.. slowing down would not work. Well fin does that already even though they claim it gives regrowth.

In sum, these numbers are no good/better than fin. in other words total waste of time and money spent on this product.It is better to stop investing at this point and let it go

I'm fairy certain they released plenty of statements about the tolerability of the drug, so your first point about side effects is just not necessary. Did you mean reverse or reserve? Because if that's the case then thats absolutely false. Ive been a NW2 for nearly 7 years on fin, id definitely call that stopping hairloss, and no I didnt get any regrowth. The drug still holds promise, there is a known link between DHT and WNT inhibition. Reducing DHT and upregulating the pathway could be huge in regards to efficiency. Thats why its important for them to continue the trials, which it looks like that are. We need to see what this drug can do in conjunction with fin.

[dutchguyhanging]

I'm fairy certain they released plenty of statements about the tolerability of the drug, so your first point about side effects is just not necessary. Did you mean reverse or reserve? Because if that's the case then thats absolutely false. Ive been a NW2 for nearly 7 years on fin, id definitely call that stopping hairloss, and no I didnt get any regrowth. The drug still holds promise, there is a known link between DHT and WNT inhibition. Reducing DHT and upregulating the pathway could be huge in regards to efficiency. Thats why its important for them to continue the trials, which it looks like that are. We need to see what this drug can do in conjunction with fin.

everyone case is different. I agree 100%. but it wont say anything about u becoming NW5 in next 3 years... Fin can not guarantee you that.. neither SM...

so yes one thing is clear, SM didnt live up to its expectations.. no cure... It means SM isnt significantly better product than fin. another mediocre treatment or finding...

Can you risk switching to SM? even tho you know they gives no regrowth.. Of course you wont.. SM results are lower than fin and what if it makes your hair worse? I hear you saying side effects.. well no one knows yet for SM. maybe it is more dangerous in long term... So not worth switching overall..

I firmly believe that fin is the worst thing happened to hair loss community. Mediocrity is the worst kind of all...

[allTheGoodNamesAreTaken]

you guys never learn... i mean never ever... first of what do you know if this treatment has no side effects? maybe they have even worse?

I don't know if it has any side effects, I've so far not heard of any but it's too early to judge that, just like it's too early to judge its effectiveness. What I do know is that it isn't about inhibiting the enzyme responsible for DHT, it's a different approach altogether. So there's good reason to hope it won't give the sexual or other side-effects that scare so many people off finasteride.

Secondly, 10% hair increase is even worse than what fin has pitched in trails. They were around 13%...

First of all, assuming 100% = 100 hairs per square cm so 10 hairs per cm^2 = 10%, it cannot yet be said to be better or worse than fin if SM gets 10 +/- 6 %. That means the true answer somewhere between 4% and 16%, and fin's 13% falls within that range. Anyway, if someone takes fin for just 3 months and sees any sort of positive change they're rightly told they should be happy with progress so far and to expect better results if they stick at it. And even if this never gives significant regrowth, it might well still turn out to reliably prevent further loss - fin doesn't in 100% of cases so an alternative would be great.

That's not a ridiculous, wildly optimistic thing to hope for from something that has actually already been shown to regrow some hair. Something countless treatments and products have promised and failed to do. Even at this early stage it's about as good as the handful of things that have ever been shown to do make any difference.

and some people, actually alot of us saying fin gives us no growth... how do you expect SM will give you any growth??

Well they've already reported that it does cause some growth... and it works in a different way to fin too, so there's no grounds for comparison.

Third, if you can not reserve balding then u r not stopping it either.

This just isn't true. It's not hard to imagine a situation where you're interrupting processes that further degrade follicles without rejuvenating the ones that have degraded far enough to stop working. Plenty of people see a halt in hair loss for years with no regrowth from finasteride too.

So it is like ageing, either you reverse it or you age.. slowing down would not work.

See above.

In sum, these numbers are no good/better than fin. in other words total waste of time and money spent on this product.It is better to stop investing at this point and let it go

All in all, an unjustified, premature conclusion. It's too early to write this one off as a worthwhile product.

[dm90]

1

[BoSox]

Seems as though Samumed is getting more attention..

http://metro.co.uk/2016/03/07/good-news-baldies-new-drug-makes-men-regrow-their-hair-in-first-human-trial-5737944/

[dutchguyhanging]

Seems as though Samumed is getting more attention..

http://metro.co.uk/2016/03/07/good-n...trial-5737944/

like I said above, all in all, Mediocrity is the worst....

it may or may not be better than fin. one thing sure it wont be significantly better treatment than fin. just another option on shelf.

so again we will be talking on and on about same problems after SM launched as well. so my question to you, why spent time on this already? its over, no cure...

i like the comment from hairloss2020.. it is no cure lets move on the next...

why do you care if it is + or - 1% hair more or not? u see the results and u know fin results. they are statistically not different. then why are u convincing yourself that this could be better?

u made ur trial and you see you made Nissan, and you are saying no in the next trial Nissan may turn to Mercedes... you get me?

[amunt]

Just drink olive oil (Extra Virgin Olive Oil) do the same job as SM04554 . The magic start from Oleuropein

[champpy]

I remember in an early report from samumed they claimed that SM was "creating new follicles"
Did anyone hear anything further on this claim from the March 5th results?
Id love to know if they concluded if they were actually growing NEW follicles or just reviving old ones. I tend to believe the growth is coming from dormant follicles, not new ones

[Seuxin]

Olive oil do the same job os SM ??? Are you fully retarded ?????

[bboyforever]

it may or may not be better than fin. one thing sure it wont be significantly better treatment than fin. just another option on shelf.

The only thing we can be cure of is that we can't be sure of anything yet. As I said before it all depends on how these results scale over a treatment period of longer than 3 months. We know the limits of Fin and Minox, we don't know really what to expect here.

Again, you've got to keep in mind how far down the cascade we are here. This is new ground and I think we stand to learn a lot regardless of how successful this is as a stand alone treatment. I'm really interested to see what the results of the biopsies are going to be.