Desmond, What Are the Big Questions?

[Pentarou]

Desmond, your supportive yet scientifically based approach is good for the whole forum.

Seconded, you are the man, Desmond.

[Dan26]

Desmond your a beast brother!!!!

Can we get your official opinion on Nigam and all the different protocols he is using?

[Thinning87]

Follica is a company working on physiology of wounding and its possible regenerative potentials. They trialled their first treatment (Lithium + wounding), which most probably didn't give cosmetic results back in 2009, hence the lack of published data or publicity.

Since then they've explored the reason for such shortcomings and pinpointed a protein known as FGF-9 which may have the potential to regenerate hair follicles. This is still in pre-clinical phase and will probably take as long as Tsuji's work to come to fruition. Firstly because FGF-9 has not been tested as a therapeutic agent in humans before and requires a 3-phased trial and secondly Follica has also been veryyy slow at conducting trial. Their last trial (Phase 1/2a) using lithium + wounding took well over 4 years.

I don't get the negativity about follica. They said they have a method to consistently create new follicles in humans. I think you guys are underestimating the value of this. They are now working on optimizing a protocol that can give significant cosmetic results but they are still using the wounding method. fgf9 will also NOT need to go through all 3 phases of approval.

Desmond you are making it sound like everything that came before was a failure and a waste of time. This is not correct, they are still using similar theories and are working on how to build a reliable product from that. It's not the same.

[clarence]

I don't get the negativity about follica. They said they have a method to consistently create new follicles in humans. I think you guys are underestimating the value of this. They are now working on optimizing a protocol that can give significant cosmetic results but they are still using the wounding method.

They are??

[cichlidfort]

And that is one of the reasons why in general the scientific world does not care abour MPB. When you get old enough to make choiches which can move ideas and money, you suddenly have other thing to worry about. You have hair whe you are young and uncaring, when you realize that its too late.

If you read some of the pages prior to this one you'll see various members posting that hair will always be an aesthetic concern to us despite our age or lifestyle. Sure we may not have the luxury to get too indulged into it like we do when we are young (which is probably a good thing) but I would def say I would rather have a good head of hair at age 40 then not have it. Looks and image is always an important thing.

[Thinning87]

They are??

That's what the June press release said!

[hellouser]

That's what the June press release said!

Again, and for the 1 millionth time. If Follica is supposedly so far behind, why is their financial backing posting this:



Source: http://www.puretechventures.com/pipeline.php

And the same question for the 1 millionth time:

Are you guys saying that Puretech Ventures and Follica are lying or you guys just simply looking for something to be negative about?

[Thinning87]

Again, and for the 1 millionth time. If Follica is supposedly so far behind, why is their financial backing posting this:



Source: http://www.puretechventures.com/pipeline.php

And the same question for the 1 millionth time:

Are you guys saying that Puretech Ventures and Follica are lying or you guys just simply looking for something to be negative about?

No but the new protocol, the one that was the topic of the June pr, has not been tried in clinical trials as I understand. What they did phase 1/2A on was the previous methods. Again this is all what I get out of recent news

[hellouser]

No but the new protocol, the one that was the topic of the June pr, has not been tried in clinical trials as I understand. What they did phase 1/2A on was the previous methods. Again this is all what I get out of recent news

So than how sure can we be which of their methods works or if more than one method work? Spencer and JFSI both confirmed Follica was able to create follicles from neogenesis and 'are now in Phase II trials'...

[HairBane]

Thank you hellouser, talking some sense. Forum's on a negativity bender again. FOLLICA IS IN THE MIDDLE OF HUMAN TRIALS FOR SOMETHING. They're not just going to drop the millions it cost them to get that far just because they found a slightly more effective way of doing it. Even if their first release doesn't work perfectly, it still generated hairs, and it'll still make them millions for them to use to develop their later iterations.

[hellouser]

Thank you hellouser, talking some sense. Forum's on a negativity bender again. FOLLICA IS IN THE MIDDLE OF HUMAN TRIALS FOR SOMETHING. They're not just going to drop the millions it cost them to get that far just because they found a slightly more effective way of doing it. Even if their first release doesn't work perfectly, it still generated hairs, and it'll still make them millions for them to use to develop their later iterations.

Most likely the case. They know there's nothing on the horizon so even if, IF (god damn it) they released a slightly less effective treatment, many of us would STILL sign up for it as theres NOTHING viable available for us today. So they could do incremental upgrades in their procedure. Which is actually BRILLIANT because as much of a smug bullshit company Apple is, they do exactly the same thing: they STAGNATE their progress and release only small improvements over time only to milk the hell out of the market and keep all the sheep on the edge. You never see a major overhaul of anything, its always small changes even if Apple could (and always SHOULD) do something big.

Whatever the case is, the FACTS are publicly stated on Puretech Ventures site. Anyone dismissing it will be branded as a skeptic. PERIOD.

[Kalio]

Between Pilofocus, dr. Nigam's doubling and now this, does it not feel like a cure is really close and very possible within the next five years?

I know there's a lot of skepticism but it seems like there are a lot of breakthroughs in this area lately. Maybe I am just being naive but thats how I feel.

[moore]

If you read some of the pages prior to this one you'll see various members posting that hair will always be an aesthetic concern to us despite our age or lifestyle. Sure we may not have the luxury to get too indulged into it like we do when we are young (which is probably a good thing) but I would def say I would rather have a good head of hair at age 40 then not have it. Looks and image is always an important thing.

Agree 100%, sorry, I was not advocating MPB dismissal.
Exactly the opposite. Nowadays even a 100 years old man or woman should be in the position to decide whether or not lose each and any of his/her hair.

[Thinning87]

So than how sure can we be which of their methods works or if more than one method work? Spencer and JFSI both confirmed Follica was able to create follicles from neogenesis and 'are now in Phase II trials'...

Well first of all I saw the podcast and it sounded to me like spencer and joe were just paraphrasing the news article that was published, and they didn't have any additional insights.

As for the rest, I think putting together the pieces of the puzzle we have, the best guess is that they are in preclinical for their new protocol, and have reached phase 1/2A for their previous pdg2. The evidence for this is:

- article stating they haven't done a clinical trial on humans with the new protocol

- disruption period in 2011 when they finished some of their trials based on the 2007 news and coincidentally there were staff changes at the top and allegedly downsizing of staff in general.

- email from upenn saying they are not in clinical trials

- very recent patents putting IP on framework method rather than specific and definitive product, with in addition explicit hinting that more development is required (last paragraph in both patents).

- phase 1/2a trials ended in 2011 (so clearly based on pre-fgf9 theory)

In addition, why would a secretive company such as Follica go out and state something like "we have consistently created human follicles on humans" if they weren't looking for some funding?

Which there is nothing wrong with by the way, all companies need funding and they have gone on for seven years.

My conclusion, and I am cautious about this, is that somewhere in between 2010 and 2011 they obtained some encouraging results from phase 1/2a trials and gained some additional insights but at the same time did not arrive to the full blown cure they thought they could give us. But at the same time they learned more and came up with this wounding protocol which explains why the previous protocol was not sufficient.

So now they are moving forward with the new protocol and at some point will be starting early human clinical trials. This is my personal speculation but correct me if I have some of the facts wrong.

Edit: oh and lastly it's very possible that the pure tech site simply doesn't take into account the new reorganization following the recent protocol development. They are a VC and have no obligation to update the timeline on their website. If anything that timeline confirms they were at phase 1/2a at some point in the past (and keep in mind according to the public statement by Follica they have bit done any human trials with the new protocol, so this must imply that those human trials were done under the old protocols)