My Take

[BaldAndHairy]

Hi everyone

I am a young man with a receding hairline. As anyone with this condition and aware of its obvious downsides and the ability to peruse the internet with supposedly its unbounded supply of information I am admitting that I have spent a lot of time on this website, reading scientific studies about androgenetic alopecia, and even contacting the people who are working to find better treatments or even cure this condition. I am posting here to offer my own personal take on what I have read.

The science seems to be simple and one lab in particular seems to have it right. Dr. Cotsarelis' lab has shown that hair follicles are programmed by simple dose-dependent factors (prostaglandins like PGD2, a likely downstream byproduct of DHT) and alternate mechanisms (the FGF9 pathway in wound-healing, read his Nature paper). His papers spell out the problem of hair loss so simply and convincingly.

This is the cutting edge it seems. And we're lucky to be at the point where the compounds, receptors, and pathways are becoming clear. I think this condition is ready to be able to be significantly treated or cured. The specific receptor has been identified and antagonists exist already too. If safety has already been established they will come even quicker. It is hard to forsee significant problems arising from those compounds because the pathway is being specifically targeted. Meaning, cancer is unlikely. And because it's a skin condition drug delivery can be very specific. Like better than any other organ.

It's going to happen but it will take a bit. They are probably doing preclinical trials right now on mice which is why nobody has heard anything. Mice cannot go on clinicaltrials.gov. I think it's very likely progress is being made.

The best thing for all of us to do (and anyone for that matter) is to keep our heads up and focus on what is important. And that means staying off this site! It will come. Make sure you have the $$ to pay for it.

[Axel]

This is the cutting edge it seems. And we're lucky to be at the point where the compounds, receptors, and pathways are becoming clear. I think this condition is ready to be able to be significantly treated or cured. The specific receptor has been identified and antagonists exist already too. If safety has already been established they will come even quicker. It is hard to forsee significant problems arising from those compounds because the pathway is being specifically targeted. Meaning, cancer is unlikely. And because it's a skin condition drug delivery can be very specific. Like better than any other organ.

It's going to happen but it will take a bit.

Agree.

The best thing for all of us to do (and anyone for that matter) is to keep our heads up and focus on what is important. And that means staying off this site! It will come. Make sure you have the $$ to pay for it.

Disagree. There's no way I'm going to just *wait*. I waited for too long (4 years lurking forums like this one). I'm (and you should too) gonna get involved actively helping those who are trying to find the solution (being companies, community members or xyz). I can't contribute researching cos I'm not a chemist or MD, but I can contribute with my expertise launching online initiatives and probably with funding...

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=13596

I hope everyone contributes in one way or another. We've got to speed this up...

[rdawg]

I think the future looks brighter for sure.

But being as this is a biotech industry one can't just expect all good news every day and really the news will come very slow, this is a year by year industry and some of the companies will fail for sure.

are we getting closer to the cure, 100%, I don't think anyone can deny that, we have seen what doesn't work and we seem to be getting more and more specific with each test/experiment etc.

It seems that a cure will come in the form of multiple medications, not just inhibiting DHT but inhibitin PGD2+Wounding+FGF-9 for example. Thus why many of our grey market experiments probably arent working.

But really the big positive is that if they do discover a strong product in say safety trials that we may be able to skip the FDA trials(once we know it's safe of course, so after the initial phase I trial possibly) and just get it ourselves! That's where this forum will come in handy.

and 100% stay off the forums, there is more to life than hair and i found that these past few months have gone by so fast when i'm just going out and living! it's a sucky thing to live with but ultimately people dont care as much as you think if you're still a positive person!

[BaldAndHairy]

Agree.




Disagree. There's no way I'm going to just *wait*. I waited for too long (4 years lurking forums like this one). I'm (and you should too) gonna get involved actively helping those who are trying to find the solution (being companies, community members or xyz). I can't contribute researching cos I'm not a chemist or MD, but I can contribute with my expertise launching online initiatives and probably with funding...

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=13596

I hope everyone contributes in one way or another. We've got to speed this up...

Could you summarize what people are doing? Is it legitimate or is it BS? Are people actually trying CRTH2 antagonists and seeing results? It's hard to verify anything you see on the internet... you are saying that there are people who are right now making these formulations and seeing silver bullet results? What are you doing specifically?

[BaldAndHairy]

Agree.




Disagree. There's no way I'm going to just *wait*. I waited for too long (4 years lurking forums like this one). I'm (and you should too) gonna get involved actively helping those who are trying to find the solution (being companies, community members or xyz). I can't contribute researching cos I'm not a chemist or MD, but I can contribute with my expertise launching online initiatives and probably with funding...

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=13596

I hope everyone contributes in one way or another. We've got to speed this up...

FYI Cotsarelis is part of the medical establishment and leads the top dermatology department in the country. He's not on this forum and gives interviews only to the mainstream media. He does not advertise anything. This should say something.

http://www.faqs.org/patents/imgfull/20130204238_01

http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20130204238

The real stuff is being done quietly. And it's hard to forsee nothing coming from it. The medical establishment (dermatologists usually are the cream of the crop of medical school graduates) is on board with natural regeneration (tested techniques of wound creation, then applying factors to create hair follicles) to create new follicles...and prostaglandins to maintain it, looks like. patents being filed...nature papers being written...it's happening before our eyes. i'd really like to know who has a stake in Follica and if its public.

Might be better to save up than do something people are already hard at work doing.

[hellouser]

Could you summarize what people are doing? Is it legitimate or is it BS? Are people actually trying CRTH2 antagonists and seeing results? It's hard to verify anything you see on the internet... you are saying that there are people who are right now making these formulations and seeing silver bullet results? What are you doing specifically?

It's legitimate. It will be a community driven initiative to raise money that will go towards funding Aderans, Histogen, etc. in hopes of speeding up their clinical trials and ultimately a fast release of their product line. Think of it this way: nobody cares about your hair loss except for yourself. You know well enough by now that the general public makes more of an effort to laugh at balding than it does to solve the problem, so it should be no surprise that all efforts to cure this disease have been at such a snails pace, just as Axel has pointed out.

At this point, I along with many others are tired of waiting and will no longer allow this kind of incredibly terrible progress to continue.

Read the thread from Axel, any and all contributions, ideas, funding will go a long way. Monetary contributions don't even have to be large if we all collectively pitch in.

Let's work together to put a final END to this nightmare and put some smiles on ours and others faces.

[hellouser]

FYI Cotsarelis is part of the medical establishment and leads the top dermatology department in the country. He's not on this forum and gives interviews only to the mainstream media. He does not advertise anything. This should say something.

http://www.faqs.org/patents/imgfull/20130204238_01

http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20130204238

The real stuff is being done quietly. And it's hard to forsee nothing coming from it. The medical establishment (dermatologists usually are the cream of the crop of medical school graduates) is on board with natural regeneration (tested techniques of wound creation, then applying factors to create hair follicles) to create new follicles...and prostaglandins to maintain it, looks like. patents being filed...nature papers being written...it's happening before our eyes. i'd really like to know who has a stake in Follica and if its public.

Might be better to save up than do something people are already hard at work doing.

While the research is all well and good, its unacceptable that its taken this long. Cotsarelis has been working on the wounding theory for about a decade (or more).

I'm not going to wait any longer only to feel good about myself when I've got few years to enjoy the moment.

[BaldAndHairy]

It's legitimate. It will be a community driven initiative to raise money that will go towards funding Aderans, Histogen, etc. in hopes of speeding up their clinical trials and ultimately a fast release of their product line. Think of it this way: nobody cares about your hair loss except for yourself. You know well enough by now that the general public makes more of an effort to laugh at balding than it does to solve the problem, so it should be no surprise that all efforts to cure this disease have been at such a snails pace, just as Axel has pointed out.

At this point, I along with many others are tired of waiting and will no longer allow this kind of incredibly terrible progress to continue.

Read the thread from Axel, any and all contributions, ideas, funding will go a long way. Monetary contributions don't even have to be large if we all collectively pitch in.

Let's work together to put a final END to this nightmare and put some smiles on ours and others faces.

Venture capitalists have infinitely more money than a forum could ever generate. And it's hard to think of a product that more people would gladly pay an arm and a leg for. I honestly don't see how there's a shortage of money in this case. There are many parties working to cure it. Some failed. Somebody seems to have it right and is securing their right to the revenue from the product.

I think it is foolish to fund companies that are failing. Clearly somebody whose money was at stake decided it was not worth it anymore. It is probably related to the eventual success of someone else. For example, it seems Aderans is gone. Stem cells are always risky. A lot of cancer problems, compatibility problems. Now, what if there was another company that was going to offer the same service using techniques that were already established? (Follica for example). That is where the money is.

[BaldAndHairy]

While the research is all well and good, its unacceptable that its taken this long. Cotsarelis has been working on the wounding theory for about a decade (or more).

I'm not going to wait any longer only to feel good about myself when I've got few years to enjoy the moment.

You're going to be old and ugly eventually if you make it to old age. Are you not going to feel good about yourself? Hey, if you learn how to feel good about yourself in spite of how society laughs at baldness, you'll be preparing for what will eventually happen.

When baldness does get cured, it will be icing on the cake.

All I'm saying is it's kind of lame to fund a defunct company. As a 'sufferer" I would take the chance with trying CRTH2 antagonists in advance of approval assuming safety is established.

[hellouser]

You're going to be old and ugly eventually if you make it to old age. Are you not going to feel good about yourself? Hey, if you learn how to feel good about yourself in spite of how society laughs at baldness, you'll be preparing for what will eventually happen.

When baldness does get cured, it will be icing on the cake.

All I'm saying is it's kind of lame to fund a defunct company. As a 'sufferer" I would take the chance with trying CRTH2 antagonists in advance of approval assuming safety is established.

Nearly all men at any stage in their life would rather have the choice of having hair rather than simply being bald. I don't care how old I am or how terrible my skin makes me look, I want my identity and my hair is a large part of that.

You can continue on with experimental drugs (not that I won't, im looking for answers from every angle too) but in 2013 and pushing 2014 for us to be going down THIS route is appalling.

I'm not going to stand idle and waiting anymore. The progress for a hair loss cure is a far bigger joke than what society throws at us.

[hellouser]

Venture capitalists have infinitely more money than a forum could ever generate. And it's hard to think of a product that more people would gladly pay an arm and a leg for. I honestly don't see how there's a shortage of money in this case. There are many parties working to cure it. Some failed. Somebody seems to have it right and is securing their right to the revenue from the product.

I think it is foolish to fund companies that are failing. Clearly somebody whose money was at stake decided it was not worth it anymore. It is probably related to the eventual success of someone else. For example, it seems Aderans is gone. Stem cells are always risky. A lot of cancer problems, compatibility problems. Now, what if there was another company that was going to offer the same service using techniques that were already established? (Follica for example). That is where the money is.

Ok, so if venture capitalists have all the money a forum could ever generate (youre wrong on that, we're not only targeting forums)... then, by your logic... where is the funding from venture capitalists? We just saw Aderans pull out of ARI only to continue selling wigs and strip FUT surgeries.

However, targeting Aderans is not the only angle, Histogen's HSC is a largely successful treatment, 86% responder rate, 40% or more regrowth in the first couple months with continued growth after a year. THEY are in need of funding as well, but ultimately its US who chose who to fund. You have a choice and your money isnt taken away immediately, its a pledge.

[BaldAndHairy]

Ok, so if venture capitalists have all the money a forum could ever generate (youre wrong on that, we're not only targeting forums)... then, by your logic... where is the funding from venture capitalists? We just saw Aderans pull out of ARI only to continue selling wigs and strip FUT surgeries.

However, targeting Aderans is not the only angle, Histogen's HSC is a largely successful treatment, 86% responder rate, 40% or more regrowth in the first couple months with continued growth after a year. THEY are in need of funding as well, but ultimately its US who chose who to fund. You have a choice and your money isnt taken away immediately, its a pledge.

An analogy:

Cotsarelis is facebook in its heydey before public offering. A breakthrough product, lots of venture capital support.
Aderans is myspace now.
Histogen is...i dont know

I see what you're saying but it seems like winners and losers have already been picked, no?

Baldness is ruthless. So is time and drug approval regulations.

Obviously go for it though if you and others truly believe it will work but I'm not putting my money there.

[BaldAndHairy]

Ok, so if venture capitalists have all the money a forum could ever generate (youre wrong on that, we're not only targeting forums)... then, by your logic... where is the funding from venture capitalists? We just saw Aderans pull out of ARI only to continue selling wigs and strip FUT surgeries.

However, targeting Aderans is not the only angle, Histogen's HSC is a largely successful treatment, 86% responder rate, 40% or more regrowth in the first couple months with continued growth after a year. THEY are in need of funding as well, but ultimately its US who chose who to fund. You have a choice and your money isnt taken away immediately, its a pledge.

If you are going for advocacy then make a foundation. Like the alzheimer's foundation. Or the Michael J Fox Foundation. Or Lance Armstrong's Foundation, whatever it is. It might be hard to get sympathy though, lol.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/bill-gates-why-do-we-care-more-about-baldness-than-malaria-8536988.html

Don't know why we would need to though.

[BaldAndHairy]

Ok, so if venture capitalists have all the money a forum could ever generate (youre wrong on that, we're not only targeting forums)... then, by your logic... where is the funding from venture capitalists? We just saw Aderans pull out of ARI only to continue selling wigs and strip FUT surgeries.

However, targeting Aderans is not the only angle, Histogen's HSC is a largely successful treatment, 86% responder rate, 40% or more regrowth in the first couple months with continued growth after a year. THEY are in need of funding as well, but ultimately its US who chose who to fund. You have a choice and your money isnt taken away immediately, its a pledge.

Maybe get a hair transplant now? The cure may come before you bald further and it looks weird.

[hellouser]

Maybe get a hair transplant now? The cure may come before you bald further and it looks weird.

I'm working on a topical treatment first, my hair has thinned badly (though its more than likely its a minox shed) and maintaining with CB coming to me soon. Growth Factors from Kane may help with the dermarolling wounding practice or that on its own may be enough for regrowth as it induces WNT proteins. I don't want to throw down so much money on an HT before I get a good regimen down. I refuse to take Finasteride as its dick poison.