Dermarolling Community Trial

[Baby John]

Bear with me because I haven't posted in years...

Interestingly, my last post involved the use of Acell, which has been mentioned in this thread.
I was very excited when I saw the thread title but after plowing thru 90 pages I have yet to see anything remotely resembling a community trial happening here.

A research paper showing potentially positive results describing a specific type of wounding using a specific instrument using a specific protocol. Simple?

Instead I've read mostly stuff that has sorta bummed me out...

Totally ignoring risk factors so that no informed decisions seem to be made.
Little to no adherence to the instrument or protocol described so efficacy can't be determined.
No need to move on from here because without the above all you have is a bunch of individuals rolling dice and hoping for 7/11 to come up ten times in a row.

Hellouser came up with a good initial idea when starting this thread but I'm afraid overabundant enthusiasm and maybe a little desperation has allowed the train to come off the rails.

Oh well...

[clandestine]

Baby John; what do you recommend?

[Hicks]

Baby John: Some of us lurk and keep a personal journal and when something interesting pops up we chime in. Feel free to start your own trial and let us know when/if something interesting pops up. Glad your back!

[Baby John]

My first recommendation would be to treat all recommendations sceptically. Not joking here.

You have a community here, some of them quite informed. And everyone can contribute to researching things.

Job One would be to rip the study apart and look for potential problems. If satisfied...

Job Two would establish a protocol that would be agreed upon by the community and would be strictly adhered to. Safety guidelines are established and strictly adhered to. Deviation would be considered a different trial.

That's a start, feel free to smash it and make it better.

[hellouser]

I'm definitely deviating from the study;

1) I'm on CB-03-01 at the moment
2) Dermarolling is causing me significant bleeding

In reference to #2, I don't see the point of using a 1.5mm without it having to cause bleeding. If 'mild erythema' was desired, a 0.5mm microneedle dermaroller would have been enough. Therefor, they most likely didn't press in all the way with the 1.5mm dermaroller.

[Atum]

Did a dermarolling session for the first time this morning.
I was a bit surprised that you can hear your skin getting pierced. Well, i think i pressed the needles full in, i was bleeding, so that's a good sign.

[Baby John]

Heya Hicks,

Thanks for the welcome. It was actually another board I bailed on because the hysteria got on my nerves. Being told you know nothing about something I was involved with clinically, then to watch the product being used improperly by a transplant surgeon with good intentions soured me completely. Haven't posted again til today. Depending upon what I see here near term I may be bailing again...

Personal experimentation is all well and good, but it needs to be well thought out and carefully monitored. The advantage to working with a community is you now can replicate results and collectively keep an eye out for problems.

Take what you're doing with the roller ball for example. I've done my share of stripping with a foam roller and yes, breaking up micro-scarring hurts.

Now, when doing this to your head and coupling it with the needling do you think the level of damage that is being done is in line with what's required to initiate the desired signal process? From a risk perspective, are you exceeding the parameter and perhaps promoting fibrotic tissue formation?

I am not trying to break your chops. Just trying to get you to ask questions to which you may desire an answer.

[brunobald]

Being told you know nothing about something I was involved with clinically, then to watch the product being used improperly by a transplant surgeon with good intentions soured me completely.

Hi BabyJohn, was this Acell by any chance?

[Hicks]

Heya Hicks,
Take what you're doing with the roller ball for example. I've done my share of stripping with a foam roller and yes, breaking up micro-scarring hurts.

Now, when doing this to your head and coupling it with the needling do you think the level of damage that is being done is in line with what's required to initiate the desired signal process? From a risk perspective, are you exceeding the parameter and perhaps promoting fibrotic tissue formation?

I am not trying to break your chops. Just trying to get you to ask questions to which you may desire an answer.

No worries, I have thick skin. Truefully I don't know. It was an idea I had but with the amount of blood I had I doubt I will do it with the derma roller again. I might use my derma roller Sunday night then ball roll another day. I made a post about the ball roll because I would say without a doubt it does do something. What it actually does in the scientific world I don't know. That being said it might be a great tool for someone that doesn't want to dermaroll. The Idea is to damage then repair (I do take supplement i.e., amino acids, etc.), ball rolling does do damage to the tissue and blood is circulating more and with the addition of minoxal you might get results. I know foam rolling is pretty awesome before a workout.

I don't try to get into a dog fights in these forums and I'm to busy to read all 90 pages where 80% are peole crying and not doing their own homework. I get an idea and try it out for 1-3 months. I wish I rented a macro lens for pictures because I am seeing small dark hairs but I"m not sure if those are hairs from a hair cycling back to life or not. However I did visit some HT Dr.s in I think July and they took photos. I'll be back to those Drs again in Nov to make a decision on a HT. That would make me at one year being on the Big 3.

[Baby John]

Hellouser,

Then you find some people who are willing to work with you for a cb/needling trial. Piggybacking one trial to another is the decision of the participants. Statistical samples don't have to be huge. Repeating a result and enhancing safety are what your looking for.

You asked another poster what they would they give to get their hair back, what you don't give is your physical well being. Always remember very nasty things can happen along with the good...

[Baby John]

Hi Bruno,

Yes it was. I sold a nearly identical product from another company. A tissue derived acellular matrix. Whether from Acell or the company I was with, make no mistake, these are wonderful products with a great track record for making peoples lives better.

However, hair follicles don't form in them. Not one piece of evidence in the 25 years that this stuff has been around shows a specialized structure forming in the new tissue during the healing process. Not one sweat gland, goose bump or hair.

Another study hellouser posted in this thread addresses this as well.

Lot of interesting stuff on this thread.

[35YrsAfter]

Also note:

Wounding that produces the signaling that may cause hair growth may also increase the incidence of basal cell carcinoma. See the study Hellouser posted earlier in this thread.

That's something to be concerned about! This is an article (PDF) worth looking at.

I personally believe that a poor diet, air quality, carcinogen exposure and poor general health can act as a cancer "catalyst". Of course genetics plays a role as well.

Don't burn your head guys! Some sun exposure is good in my opinion. If you're doing micro needling, stay healthy.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office

https://www.forhair.com

Cole Hair Transplant
1045 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

[Baby John]

Hicks,

You may be spot on. I certainly don't know. I just want people to ask questions and try to make informed decisions before they decide to do - or not to do - something.

Thanks for being nice about it though, I can sound like a robot.

[HARIRI]

That's something to be concerned about! This is an article (PDF) worth looking at.

I personally believe that a poor diet, air quality, carcinogen exposure and poor general health can act as a cancer "catalyst". Of course genetics plays a role as well.

Don't burn your head guys! Some sun exposure is good in my opinion. If you're doing micro needling, stay healthy.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office

https://www.forhair.com

Cole Hair Transplant
1045 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

Thats why professional hair companies produce dermarollers for scalp (Scalp rollers) with maximum 0.5mm needles to avoid bad wounding. Even on Ebay, most of dermarollers have instructions in which one to choose and for which purpose. When it comes to hair loss they would refer to 0.3, 0.5 and 0.75 maximum and not more. I spent a lot of money on my transplanted hair and not wishing to damage my precious follicles lol.

I'm using the 0.5mm scalp roller once a week although its mentioned that it could be used everyday. Its better than nothing. None of us here want to have tumors God forbid

[Pentarou]

Eurgh, I'm reluctant to jump on this bandwagon now if there's a tumour risk.