Dermarolling Community Trial

**Chromeo** · 12-13-2013, 09:04 AM

Originally posted by ryan555

With all this talk about pain and photos of bloody scalps, I wonder if you guys are doing this incorrectly. I've had two very well-known doctors dermaroll me and it was neither painful (mild discomfort, I'd say) and definitely no blood.

Your doctors are doing this incorrectly for this purpose.

**ryan555** · 12-13-2013, 09:48 AM

Originally posted by Chromeo

Your doctors are doing this incorrectly for this purpose.

One of them (Dr Greco in Florida) actually showed me the study and it didn't appear they were rolling their scalps into a bloody mess. Where are you information that says you need to bleed for this to be effective?

**Knockin on NW4** · 12-13-2013, 10:09 AM

Originally posted by ryan555

With all this talk about pain and photos of bloody scalps, I wonder if you guys are doing this incorrectly. I've had two very well-known doctors dermaroll me and it was neither painful (mild discomfort, I'd say) and definitely no blood.

Its all about needle lengths. 0.5mm will not draw blood. 1.5mm will. End of story.

**Chromeo** · 12-13-2013, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by ryan555

One of them (Dr Greco in Florida) actually showed me the study and it didn't appear they were rolling their scalps into a bloody mess. Where are you information that says you need to bleed for this to be effective?

Those who produced the study were contacted and admitted that "mild erythema" was a misleading term and that subjects regularly bled.

You need to actually wound the skin sufficiently for the process to begin. Why do you think people didn't see this kind of regrowth when rolling with 0.5 mm needles? It's because those needles are not really long enough to achieve the required amount of wounding.

I'm not saying you need to absolutely massacre your head like some people are doing, that seems like overkill to me. But you certainly should be rolling hard enough with needles of a sufficient length to at least draw some blood. Otherwise I would suggest you're half-assing it and the results won't be all that impressive, if noticeable at all.

**awesome1** · 12-13-2013, 12:31 PM

I have medium length hair (for a guy anyway) and it's difficult getting the top of my scalp done with a 540 roller, dunno if it'd be any easier with a 192 roller, I get some bleeding, but most of it is on the temples, where it's easier to get the roller. Kinda tough if I'm getting it on the crown, but I'm definitely super sensitive across the scalp the next few days so I imagine I'm doing fine. I definitely break a lot of hairs with it every roll, another reason I've reduced frequency of rolls. (It's also made me confused whether I see real regrowth or just broken hairs now)

I hope I'm still getting my scalp sufficiently, my crown is what worries me most. I'm tempted to spend a little more on a 192 but am not sure if it will be a dramatic enough difference. Anyone used both kinds and have noticed much difference? People say the 540 causes the "bed of needles" effect but I haven't heard that from anyone who's actually reported to try both.

I can feel it sink into the flesh on my temples (god it's weird), but don't get the same sensation at the crown, where there's more hair in the way.

**cichlidfort** · 12-13-2013, 05:04 PM

Here's a simple rule of thumb- no pain, no gain. You better bleed and your scalp better be red otherwise you're NOT doing it properly. Also, doing it once a month is not enough.

**awesome1** · 12-13-2013, 05:13 PM

On what basis? Thumbing around skin care forums people scoff at people doing treatments more than once a month, purporting that it is far too often for collagen induction to work effectively. I'm not saying neither of us are without burdens of proof, but when you make claims like that, what is the basis?

**Hicks** · 12-13-2013, 05:30 PM

Has anyone experienced a dulling DR? I wonder what the life expectancy is of a DR.

**chimera** · 12-13-2013, 08:22 PM

Originally posted by awesome1

Got my roller almost 2 months ago, have been decreasing frequency to once a month of treatments based on the healing process timeline and recommendations from forums where people have been using it for skin care. The only other major thing in my regiment is 1% keto (and daily vitamins and ginko biloba), I'm not sure if I've seen regrowth yet or if they're broken hairs, I'm also noticing many vellus hairs where the hair is thin enough to spot em, but I'm not sure if that's a new development. I've been on keto shampoo 3 months now.

I'm cautiously optimistic, whats frustrating is my thinning crown is far back enough I have difficulties gauging how bad it really looks most the time.

I don't know. Yeah, guys using the dermaroller say you should not use it more than once a month... but we don't know if that is enough for us... remember, all those people use the dermaroller as a therapy for the induction of new collagen... welll, we don't. We do it because of the growth factors released during wounding... waiting a month may very well be enough for those who are just waiting to heal... as all those on skin-care therapy... but is the promotion of the factors asociated with wounding once a month enough for us?

**chimera** · 12-13-2013, 08:29 PM

Originally posted by awesome1

I have medium length hair (for a guy anyway) and it's difficult getting the top of my scalp done with a 540 roller, dunno if it'd be any easier with a 192 roller, I get some bleeding, but most of it is on the temples, where it's easier to get the roller. Kinda tough if I'm getting it on the crown, but I'm definitely super sensitive across the scalp the next few days so I imagine I'm doing fine. I definitely break a lot of hairs with it every roll, another reason I've reduced frequency of rolls. (It's also made me confused whether I see real regrowth or just broken hairs now)

I hope I'm still getting my scalp sufficiently, my crown is what worries me most. I'm tempted to spend a little more on a 192 but am not sure if it will be a dramatic enough difference. Anyone used both kinds and have noticed much difference? People say the 540 causes the "bed of needles" effect but I haven't heard that from anyone who's actually reported to try both.

I can feel it sink into the flesh on my temples (god it's weird), but don't get the same sensation at the crown, where there's more hair in the way.

Everyone complaining about tangled and broken hairs is on 540 neddles... go to 192, it won't mess with your hair... well, it will, but it will be much less than the 540...

**chimera** · 12-13-2013, 08:55 PM

I been rolling once every two weeks. this is working for me, no doubt about it. As I said before, my results are completely pathetic... very small hairs... but they are everywhere on my hairline... an I bet my whole scalp is the same (but I still have too much hair to see it there)... this hairs are so, so small, but they were not there, and I have been using minox for two years... so I know this is the dermaroller in action... I don't really think this hairs will be as long and wide as normal hair, and if they do, I'm sure it will take a a lot of hair cycles before that happens (if it happens at all)... if they keep growing at the same rate... it will probable take a couple of years...

Anyway, I don't really care about those small hairs... I care about the hair on my scalp which is still in good shape... If the dermaroller is giving me all these small new hairs everywhere, I'm sure it must be doing something for my existing hair too.. and that's what I want... to save what I still got...

I stopped rolling for more than a month... I just got lazy... but I'm going at it again starting january first at full force... I'm going to do it for a full year...

Yeah guys... this is paifully slow... even if the study said so, don't mind if you don't see any results at the three month mark, in fact, you probably won't... but got to keep rolling...

**saintsfan92344** · 12-14-2013, 08:40 AM

Originally posted by chimera

I don't know. Yeah, guys using the dermaroller say you should not use it more than once a month... but we don't know if that is enough for us... remember, all those people use the dermaroller as a therapy for the induction of new collagen... welll, we don't. We do it because of the growth factors released during wounding... waiting a month may very well be enough for those who are just waiting to heal... as all those on skin-care therapy... but is the promotion of the factors asociated with wounding once a month enough for us?

As far as length of time between rolls, no one knows what is best yet, I have been doing it 1x a week for 6 weeks till bloody, this last week my head where I roll itched so bad for the whole week, I was going nuts. it wasn't a shed itch either, if it was and I shed that bad I wouldn't have any hair left. I may wait 10 days between rolls, maybe I wasn't giving it enough time to heal

**inbrugge** · 12-15-2013, 11:10 PM

Quick question.

Why go with 1.5 mm? If deeper is better, I can handle 2.5 mm.

BTW, I did my first dermaroll last week. I liked it. Even though I drew no blood, I think that's ok for the first roll. I will be going in harder next time.

I'm hopeful and looking forward to the next roll. Now if I could begin a Minox treatment, then it's only a matter of finding which route I want to take in terms of DHT blocking. (Too many alternatives).

**JulioGP** · 12-16-2013, 06:06 AM

Originally posted by PrettyFly83

Hey all my Balding Brothers and Sister

As promised here are my 3 month update photo's which I'm posting for all to gauge the effectiveness of this treatment.

To summarize, I haven't changed anything in my regime from my first posts on page 6-8 of this thread as I didnt want to blur any results by changing techniques. My understanding was the original purpose of this thread by Hellouser was either to replicate the study or undertake a regime with slight variations on the technique. I'm planning to stick with my regime until I see someone yield better results with theirs. In no way am I saying mine was better than the studies, I had just been doing it for 2 months so thought to carry on.

Ive tried to match close ups over various area's of my shiny NW6 head to compare each area individually. Sorry if they are not exactly correctly positioned as these were all taken with an Galaxy SIII but I think they show enough detail.

Would like to hear everyone views on them, whether there has been any progress. Be gentle with your comments please, this is my head after all

For those using this technique, please please please keep going, it's only been 1 month since this thread started and the only way we can verify or disprove the study is with multiple cases. Close ups before and during are the only way to see if anything is happening as its VERY slow in my case so please take baseline pictures.

Remember to click ZOOM button twice to get full size, here we go:
Front Start of Treatment

Photo Storage

http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/PrettyFly83/media/Derma%20Roller%20and%20Minox/2013-05-20094342_zpsb0ced7ac.jpg.html?sort=3&o=9