Dermarolling Community Trial

[doke]

Great link, thanks!

hi sorry about the link i kept trying but it did not work anyway the company and video is on www.clearskincare.com.au

[SOTF]

People have been inducing erythema on their scalps while using minox for many years now. There is something a muck here, please "mildly" roll a 1.5mm dermaroller over your scalp, how much needle penetration are you getting? Less than half. Why even use a 1.5mm? Just use a .5mm which is enough to create erythema WITHOUT bleeding. If I get more than half penetration with the 1.5mm I BLEED.

Scarring? Have you seen the force used with a dermaroller on scars? Bleeding occurs. You are not going to damage or create scars pushing half a 1.5mm roller into your head.

Some of you guys are nuts (and misinformed). I can use ad hominem too.

[johnnynohair]

Hello men.

I'll be trying this and reporting back. Got a 1.5mm roller on the way, I use 5% regaine foam twice a day and Nizoral twice a week.

I'm aiming to post baseline pictures but my bald/thin bit is right at the back and a pig to photograph well. And y'know a bit cringe to do...

Cheers and good luck all.

[PrettyFly83]

Hey all

So I took some initiative and managed to make contact with one of the Doctors behind the recent microneedling study. I'm not going to post their details here as they could get inundated with random emails and we may never get the facts we're after. they have confirmed that they are using it as a treatment for patients which is another promising sign on its effectiveness.

What I suggest is putting together a short list of queries we have which I'll request some clarity on. Whether we get any more information is another question as if they are using this treatment, its unlikely they will want to give away their secrets but its worth a try right?

The following seem to be the biggest queries on the forum which all are welcome to edit:

1. Needle size (0.5mm vs 1.5mm) to induce growth
2. Treatment pressure used and Whether weekly treatment is the most optimum
3. Why did study not use minox on same day
4. Whether bleeding is normal and to what extent
5. Will the treatment cause scaring and possibly hinder natural hair growth

Open to any opinions and views?

Its probably best to first pose some fairly non threatening questions to see if they open up so maybe lets keep it to a max 3-4 basic questions.

[HectorHero]

People have been inducing erythema on their scalps while using minox for many years now. There is something a muck here, please "mildly" roll a 1.5mm dermaroller over your scalp, how much needle penetration are you getting? Less than half. Why even use a 1.5mm? Just use a .5mm which is enough to create erythema WITHOUT bleeding. If I get more than half penetration with the 1.5mm I BLEED.

Scarring? Have you seen the force used with a dermaroller on scars? Bleeding occurs. You are not going to damage or create scars pushing half a 1.5mm roller into your head.

Some of you guys are nuts (and misinformed). I can use ad hominem too.

Well, the one study used a 1.5 mm roller (with success). So at what point are people falling trap to ad hominem?

[GreyGhost1864]

Gents,
Joined HLH back in 2002. I am 40 and solid norwood 6 with about 3000 grafts in front to frame my grill. I like this forum the best so joined. I have been using Capillogain for 7 months and Scalp Med for the past month. The Cap regrew some and totally regrew my eye brows so has some benifit. Plus I have tons of elogngated peach fuzz all over my melon. Anyway been using the 1.5 for two weeks now and tonight will be the start of week three. I truly think waiting a full 7 days is very important. In a more severe would the three stages of healing takes 30 days. I am guessing these micro wounds heal in 6 to 7 with the growth factors at their highest points at day 3 and 4. I think wounding every day or every third day breaks the cycle of healing hence it will not work. I feel the cycle has to complete its self and with new wounds after that cycle it starts all over hence more WNT which is what we want....

Cheers,
Ghost

[hellouser]

Hey all

So I took some initiative and managed to make contact with one of the Doctors behind the recent microneedling study. I'm not going to post their details here as they could get inundated with random emails and we may never get the facts we're after. they have confirmed that they are using it as a treatment for patients which is another promising sign on its effectiveness.

What I suggest is putting together a short list of queries we have which I'll request some clarity on. Whether we get any more information is another question as if they are using this treatment, its unlikely they will want to give away their secrets but its worth a try right?

The following seem to be the biggest queries on the forum which all are welcome to edit:

1. Needle size (0.5mm vs 1.5mm) to induce growth
2. Treatment pressure used and Whether weekly treatment is the most optimum
3. Why did study not use minox on same day
4. Whether bleeding is normal and to what extent
5. Will the treatment cause scaring and possibly hinder natural hair growth

Open to any opinions and views?

Its probably best to first pose some fairly non threatening questions to see if they open up so maybe lets keep it to a max 3-4 basic questions.

A few questions from me:

6. Do results continue to show as long as wounding/dermarolling continues with the use of Minoxidil or is there a maximum achievable one can expect?

7. How many norwood levels can this method potentially bring back a balding man?

8. We're trials ever done with Finasteride and if so, did the results improve?

[PrettyFly83]

Gents,
Joined HLH back in 2002. I am 40 and solid norwood 6 with about 3000 grafts in front to frame my grill. I like this forum the best so joined. I have been using Capillogain for 7 months and Scalp Med for the past month. The Cap regrew some and totally regrew my eye brows so has some benifit. Plus I have tons of elogngated peach fuzz all over my melon. Anyway been using the 1.5 for two weeks now and tonight will be the start of week three. I truly think waiting a full 7 days is very important. In a more severe would the three stages of healing takes 30 days. I am guessing these micro wounds heal in 6 to 7 with the growth factors at their highest points at day 3 and 4. I think wounding every day or every third day breaks the cycle of healing hence it will not work. I feel the cycle has to complete its self and with new wounds after that cycle it starts all over hence more WNT which is what we want....

Cheers,
Ghost

Hey Ghost, good points raised and welcome to the forum! Have you taken some baseline pictures? I'm a NW6 myself and have gotten some fine regrowth all over from this technique. Check out pages 5-8 of the thread for my pictures. I agree about the resting period as the same is used in the skin care circles for collagen production - to early and you disrupt the cycle.

[PrettyFly83]

A few questions from me:

6. Do results continue to show as long as wounding/dermarolling continues with the use of Minoxidil or is there a maximum achievable one can expect?

7. How many norwood levels can this method potentially bring back a balding man?

8. We're trials ever done with Finasteride and if so, did the results improve?

Good Points Hellouser! noted them down.

[GreyGhost1864]

PrettyFly yep I saw your pictures and can see your regrowth! Also see that your sun and or age spots have almost diminished. Your scalp looks a lot healthier for sure. Got me excited! You and me are in the same boat but with time I feel we will be NW3's! I also feel Follica has the cure but they are trying to work around a patent for which could take many, many years and a Patent pending doesn't help them at all. I have some background in this. Them using CURRENT drugs to trigger hair formulation they cannot patent because it is already out in market now. So their patents are based on a machine that either plucks holes and or some type of abrasion machine. All in all they know it works but every tom dick and harry will do a spin off. You cannot patent something unless it is new and unique to the market....their machine will be but wounding is wounding weather it is done by hand or machine.....cheers fellas

[LevonHelms]

Hey guys,
I've been following this thread closely, and have finally been approved to post. I've purchased the 1.5mm and have done one treatment as described by the study, which I plan to follow. I'm a 10yr fin and minox vet, and will be continuing these through my trial (minox once a day except rolling days).

PrettyFly, your results are encouraging congrats! And thank you for contacting the scientist, if you can open a dialogue or even get a few questions answered that will be huge.

Anyway, lots of guys are trialing this right now, here, and on other forums. So, we should know if this works one way or another pretty soon.

Good Luck everybody!

[hellouser]

PrettyFly yep I saw your pictures and can see your regrowth! Also see that your sun and or age spots have almost diminished. Your scalp looks a lot healthier for sure. Got me excited! You and me are in the same boat but with time I feel we will be NW3's! I also feel Follica has the cure but they are trying to work around a patent for which could take many, many years and a Patent pending doesn't help them at all. I have some background in this. Them using CURRENT drugs to trigger hair formulation they cannot patent because it is already out in market now. So their patents are based on a machine that either plucks holes and or some type of abrasion machine. All in all they know it works but every tom dick and harry will do a spin off. You cannot patent something unless it is new and unique to the market....their machine will be but wounding is wounding weather it is done by hand or machine.....cheers fellas

The solution with Follica, in my opinion, is simple:

1) Dermaroll/wound whenever needed at 7 day intervals.
2) Use a mesogun to inject FGF-9 yourself.
3) Watch hair grow.

FGF-9 needs injection though, its molecular weight is 23,000 dalton, far higher than skin allows (typically a maximum of 500 dalton, depending on vehicle as well).

Dermarolling should allow heavier compounds to go through the skin, but I'm not sure by how much. In one source I read up to 10,000 dalton, which is still HALF of FGF-9, so injection is still needed.

If we could though, get our hands on FGF-9 and inject ourselves with it and dermaroll, we'd need to figure out WHEN to inject ourselves with it; right after wounding? A day later? 3-4 days later? Before?

If anyone is an expert on this, would a diabetic needle with FGF-9 in saline provide results?

[rdawg]

If anyone is an expert on this, would a diabetic needle with FGF-9 in saline provide results?

Do we even know if it's safe to use this FGF-9 stuff though?

like what harmful side effects could occur(cancer?)

it's worth a try if it's very safe to use like say cetrizine/PGD2 is.

[hellouser]

Do we even know if it's safe to use this FGF-9 stuff though?

like what harmful side effects could occur(cancer?)

it's worth a try if it's very safe to use like say cetrizine/PGD2 is.

FGF-9 is already produced by your body, should be safe as hell. Also, its apparently already used in certain products, and Follica has already passed Phase I safety trials.

[bigentries]

FGF-9 is already produced by your body, should be safe as hell. Also, its apparently already used in certain products, and Follica has already passed Phase I safety trials.

Hellouser, that is really bad reasoning, there are lots of substances produced by the body that have adverse effects when used exogenously

And are you sure about Follica? The last release of information was very chaotic, some people kept talking about Phase III trials, I don't remember anyone being able to find the trials that several articles were talking about