Minoxidil+dermaroller

[Barron]

I used to use a scalp-roller with Minoxidil. But every time, after an hour or so, I'd feel extremely disoriented/light headed and uneasy. Heart rate would increase a lot too. So I stopped. I've read of other people who've experienced the same effect. Seems to only happen to a small minority of people though. However, it did tell me that scalp-rolling was increasing absorption.

Recently I started using a scalp roller with emu oil a few times a week. It almost immediately stopped my excessive shedding in areas of diffuse thinning. I'm optimistic.

[chimera]

I used to use a scalp-roller with Minoxidil. But every time, after an hour or so, I'd feel extremely disoriented/light headed and uneasy. Heart rate would increase a lot too. So I stopped. I've read of other people who've experienced the same effect. Seems to only happen to a small minority of people though. However, it did tell me that scalp-rolling was increasing absorption.

Recently I started using a scalp roller with emu oil a few times a week. It almost immediately stopped my excessive shedding in areas of diffuse thinning. I'm optimistic.

How many times a week did you used the dermaroller?. As it has been said before, this is not about absorption, you should not use minoxidil the same day you use dermaroller. In this study it was used just once per week, and of course the day they used the dermaroller they did not apply the minoxidil. In fact, I think that could even be dangerous, as to much minoxidil would get absorbed (oral minoxidil for example, is very hardcore).

[Barron]

Used it once a week. Yeah, I know, it was a poor idea, and I do think it's probably dangerous. That's why I stopped. Feeling good about the rolling/emu oil combo, though.

[KO1]

Wow...this is really interesting.

[rdawg]

yea i Dont use minoxidil on the same day.

It does feel like there is blood rushing up there, but its not a bad feeling, and my hair feels better the next day for sure!

[DifferentLine]

Is the 1.5mm roller actually safe to use on your scalp? I've read quite a few accounts of head bleeding when using it.

[JDW]

So are they suggesting that there is a good chance that results in this trial came as much from the scalp roller as they did from the minoxidil and that the dermaroller could potentially bring results about by itself?

[Buster]

So are they suggesting that there is a good chance that results in this trial came as much from the scalp roller as they did from the minoxidil and that the dermaroller could potentially bring results about by itself?

That's what I'm curious about. They're pretty cheap, and if I remember correctly it was only used once a week, so why not give it shot?

[chimera]

So are they suggesting that there is a good chance that results in this trial came as much from the scalp roller as they did from the minoxidil and that the dermaroller could potentially bring results about by itself?

Well, it could be, but I can't really answer that as, to be honest, I don't know much about the way minoxidil works. I mean, yeah, everybody knows that minoxidil is a vasodilator but, as other vasodilators have been tried on the scalp without success, I don't think minoxidil being a vasodilator is enough to explain it's results. Some even say it increases PGE2 (wich unlike PGD2, is supposed to be a good prostaglandin), but I don't know if that's true. And even if it is truth, I don't even know what's the role of PGE2 or how does it work.

What I am trying to say is, Minoxidil and dermarolling would work in a different way, so you would think that dermarolling would give you results regardless of using minoxidil or not (albeit obviously, those results would be much less substantial), but there could be a mechanism of minoxidil which creates the adequate climate for the results of the dermaroller to manifest.

Then again, this is all speculation on my part.

[Borealis]

I've just bought one from eBay, 1.5mm. Will be applying Minoxidil once a day (for the next few weeks, due to my own reasons) for 6 days a week, and then dermarolling on the 7th. Will keep you guys posted.

[walrus]

The two references this study used can be read here as abstracts from oral presentations:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3500071/

A002: Repeated Microneedle Stimulation Induce the Enhanced Expression of Hair-Growth-Related Genes

Kwanho Jeong*, Ye Jin Lee, Jung Eun Kim, Young Min Park, Beom Joon Kim1, Hoon Kang

Department of Dermatology, College of Medicine, The Catholic University of Korea, 1Chung-Ang University College of Medicine, Seoul, Korea

Skin wound healing is biologically stepwise systemized process which involves cross reactions between different cutaneous cell constituents. Recently, it is known that cutaneous injury with microneedle produces new collagen formation and helps cellular revitalization. We designed experiment to know what will happen after repeated small injury to the hairy skin area. Disk-type microneedle roller was used to evaluate the differences of hair growing effects according to microneedle length and rolling cycles. In addition, the change of hair-growth-related factors was checked. 10 mice (C57BL/6 female; 8 week of age) were divided into 5 groups and each group dorsal skin was depilated. Disk-type roller was applied to each group during 4 weeks (5 times a week) according to microneedle length such as 0.15 mm, 0.25 mm, 0.5 mm, 1.0 mm. After obtained microneedle length for hair growing, most effective rolling cycle determining experiment was carried out such as 3, 6, 10, 13 cycles. Hair growing after microneedle stimulation was evaluated with photograph and handheld digital microscope. To examine hair follicles status and its related growth factors, specimens were obtained by excision biopsy from the dorsal aspect of each mouse. Tissue samples were utilized for the immunohistochemistry and RT-PCR study. 0.5 mm microneedle and 6, 10 rolling cycles showed most valuable hair growing effect. VEGF, β-catenin, Wnt3a, and Wnt10b were strongly stained, increased in the 0.5 mm microneedle and 10 rolling cycle samples and their gene expression was remarkable in the RT-PCR.

This study was supported by a National Research Foundation of Korea grant funded by the Korean government (2011-0008687)

and:

A007: Hair Follicle Regeneration in Mice After Wounding by Microneedle Roller

Beom Joon Kim*, Yun Young Lim, Hyeong Mi Kim, Yang Won Lee1, Chong Hyun Won2, Chang Hun Huh3, Hoon Kang4

Department of Dermatology, Chung-Ang University, 1Konkuk University, College of Medicine, 2Asan Medical Center, University of Ulsan College of Medicine, Seoul, 3Seoul National University Bundang Hospital, Seongnam, Gyeonggi, 4College of Medicine, The Catholic University of Korea, Seoul, Korea

Microneedle is an efficient device for facilitating drug delivery through the stratum corneum. During microneedle rolling, various growth factors including human platelet derived growth factor (PDGF) and epidermal growth factor (EGF) were increased through platelet activation and skin wound regeneration mechanism. We investigated the effect of microneedle roller stimulation on activating the hair growth pathway. The preclinical test was performed using microneedle rollers with 0.25 mm or 0.5 mm in needle size. Mice were divided into seven groups: negative control group, positive control group (50% ethanol), 3% minoxidil group, horizontal wound group, vertical wound group, 0.25-mm-sized microneedle roller group, and 0.5-mm-sized microneedle roller group. Microneedle roller treated groups showed earlier and faster hair growth than untreated mice group. And the hair induced by microneedle roller was shinier than the hair induced by minoxidil. Increased expression of hair follicle growth related molecules in microneedle roller treated group was also confirmed by immunoblotting and RT-PCR. These findings suggest that microneedle roller would be useful to treat hair loss refractory to minoxidil treatment. This study was supported by a National Research Foundation of Korea grant funded by the Korean government (2011-0008687).

[Bocaj]

In case anyone is interested in a pen type needling device:

http://dermapen.com/images/Product-Guide-Presentation.pdf

http://shop.owndoc.com/product-info.php?DermaJet-pid229.html

That place also has an article comparing theirs to the Dermapen(they don't sell the Dermapen..obviously): http://owndoc.com/dermarolling/derma...micro-tearing/

[Conpecia]

Please keep us updated borealis.

[bananana]

I use dermaroller + divine herbal oil every 5 days (for 2 months now), and I must say the itch is completely gone, it even lowered it from the level MSM/vit c took it to.

So I'm pretty optimistic about the whole thing. I'll let you know how it goes.

[Conpecia]

so this is basically the follica theory, right guys? not just "increased absorption" of minox? we're talking about wounding and healing, correct?