Good News -- I just called Aderans Research Institute in Atlanta

[TO YOUNG TO RETIRE]

thats hi end i think. can you just imagine? no need for donour, i think the problem here will be how close can the wounds be done=density

Follica's procedure would have to look like this:

Make a suitable wound that is deep enough (I think a single wound would be similar to FUE punch) -> inject FGF9 in suitable moment into the wound (I guess it would have to be done pretty fast before the healing processes start)-> repeat it thousands of times, because in theory one wound + one injection would create one graft.

So they would have to create some kind of machine that would be doing that fast.

[hellouser]

Why not use an instrument like the they do for implanting recipient hairs? Would that not be enough for the Follica procedure?

[KO1]

Follica's procedure would have to look like this:

Make a suitable wound that is deep enough (I think a single wound would be similar to FUE punch) -> inject FGF9 in suitable moment into the wound (I guess it would have to be done pretty fast before the healing processes start)-> repeat it thousands of times, because in theory one wound + one injection would create one graft.

So they would have to create some kind of machine that would be doing that fast.

No. Follica's procedure according to all in so far is totally different from what you said. There isn't going to be tons of tiny little punches. (try needling your scalp). Once you push skin into an embryonic state, you can instruct it to create follicles, and increase them via downregulating PGD2 and upregulating FGF. Follica theorizes you can even modify the characteristics of the neogenic follicles, such as making female follicles by applying topical estrogen. Obviously this needs to be proven.


Assuming Follica is still alive.


It is more likely going to be a large, open wound, such as dermabrasion done with a laser or abrasives, then application of a topical.

[TravisB]

Assuming Follica is still alive.

Apparently they ARE alive.

They made that FGF9 update in June, duh

But yeah, it might be also like you said - large open wound then apply all the needed stuff on the whole scalp at once. It would be even easier

[Pentarou]

Assuming Follica is still alive.

KO1, I respect your knowledge on MPB, what makes you think that Follica aren't currently "alive"?

They do seem very opaque, if anything. Have they ever carried out human trials?

[KO1]

KO1, I respect your knowledge on MPB, what makes you think that Follica aren't currently "alive"?

They do seem very opaque, if anything. Have they ever carried out human trials?

I am not as knowledgeable as you kindly suggest, but my opinion:

- Follica's team has had a lot of turnover the past few years. Many of their senior staff like Prouty, Barman have left.

- A number of lower level employees have also left the team.

- They ran clinical trials three years ago, and haven't ran another one since then. At least if they have that info is not public. A three year gap is pretty substantial IMO.

- Some people have tried similar dermabrasion protocols with topicals like lithium and gefitinib, and haven't gotten any notable regrowth. People used to do that on Hairsite in 08-09. Given that Follica's treatment is dermabrasion+lithium gel, it makes me a little suspicious.

- Last year Garza released a paper showing that PGD2 inhibited HF neogenesis. Since Follica didn't inhibit PGD2 in their clinical trial, I wonder how successful they were.

- Follica wasn't even trying to grow terminal hairs, but rather "neogenic-like" hair follicles, which are smaller than vellus hairs. How do those become terminal?

- Simply put, we just don't think the past procedure of Dermabrasion+Li is enough to create follicles. There has to be more to it. We likely will need to upregulate FGF, inhibit PGD2, and perhaps add estrogen to make them resistant to DHT. But those are all guesses.


I respect Follica's team and the work they do, but, obviously I'm happy to be wrong. In a sense, I suspect the FGF9 study (which they knew years ago btw) was a subtle way of announcing that they are still alive.

[Thinning87]

I think it's pretty safe to say Follica is on to something, they may end up being wrong I guess there's always a chance, but folks if they went out and made the kind of statements they have made so far it means they must have pretty solid evidence to back up what they are saying, I can't believe everyone here is always assuming these researchers are so reckless when they talk.

And as far as all the deadlines, no one can say for sure but I think it's pretty safe to assume if anyone of these companies ends up having a final cure or good substitute, it will be within 5-10 years at most.

[Pentarou]

I am not as knowledgeable as you kindly suggest, but my opinion:

- Follica's team has had a lot of turnover the past few years. Many of their senior staff like Prouty, Barman have left.

- A number of lower level employees have also left the team.

- They ran clinical trials three years ago, and haven't ran another one since then. At least if they have that info is not public. A three year gap is pretty substantial IMO.

- Some people have tried similar dermabrasion protocols with topicals like lithium and gefitinib, and haven't gotten any notable regrowth. People used to do that on Hairsite in 08-09. Given that Follica's treatment is dermabrasion+lithium gel, it makes me a little suspicious.

- Last year Garza released a paper showing that PGD2 inhibited HF neogenesis. Since Follica didn't inhibit PGD2 in their clinical trial, I wonder how successful they were.

- Follica wasn't even trying to grow terminal hairs, but rather "neogenic-like" hair follicles, which are smaller than vellus hairs. How do those become terminal?

- Simply put, we just don't think the past procedure of Dermabrasion+Li is enough to create follicles. There has to be more to it. We likely will need to upregulate FGF, inhibit PGD2, and perhaps add estrogen to make them resistant to DHT. But those are all guesses.


I respect Follica's team and the work they do, but, obviously I'm happy to be wrong. In a sense, I suspect the FGF9 study (which they knew years ago btw) was a subtle way of announcing that they are still alive.

Thank you for that. Some of that I didn't know, like the fact that they carried out human trials (with an earlier protocol?). Had heard about people's DIY attempts at replicating the Follica technique at home, hope there's a piece in the puzzle missing (PGD2 inhibition?) and it yields results, but I'm not going to be too optimistic for the sake of it.

[Desmond84]

Hey guys Did Spencer mention anything about Aderans? I missed the show!

Cheers.

[tom vercetti]

Hey guys Did Spencer mention anything about Aderans? I missed the show!

Cheers.

Hi desmond84, I would like to ask about your expertise, what do you think is the best way to inject the 3D DP cells into the scalps ? I mean, about the deap etc.. In order to not damage the bulge and to reach a large area of hair ? Any ideas ?

[JJJJrS]

Hey guys Did Spencer mention anything about Aderans? I missed the show!

Cheers.

He talked about it on yesterday's show.

He said he had a long conversation with Ken Washenik and that the rumors are true. The Aderans board has decided to stop funding the Aderans Research Institute (ARI). Apparently the people involved with ARI want to keep going but they will now have to receive funding from other sources. Spencer alluded to the idea of a possible kickstarter in the future to raise funds.

[hellouser]

He talked about it on yesterday's show.

He said he had a long conversation with Ken Washenik and that the rumors are true. The Aderans board has decided to stop funding the Aderans Research Institute (ARI). Apparently the people involved with ARI want to keep going but they will now have to receive funding from other sources. Spencer alluded to the idea of a possible kickstarter in the future to raise funds.

What? Is this serious or a joke?

[JJJJrS]

What? Is this serious or a joke?

100% serious. When the show gets uploaded, you'll be able to confirm it for yourself if you like.

[hellouser]

100% serious. When the show gets uploaded, you'll be able to confirm it for yourself if you like.

So unless someone else is willing to fund Aderans, they're out of the race which leaves only Replicel and Histogen?

[UK_]

LOL Kickstarter from a company owned by a multi-million $ enterprise. What bullshit.

I think it's incredibly shameful of the company not to put out a public anouncement about their closure, we've been following them for the best part of a decade and they cant even tell us that they have failed?

Ridiculous. Obviously the parent company isn’t happy with the results and is refusing to throw more money at ARI – the thing is, nobody in their right mind will be buying their stupid Hair Club hair replacement products.

I would rather spend a bit more money and go to the HASCI INSTITUTE.

As for the first post, the guy who phoned Aderans was clearly fobbed off with some bullshit by some semi-exec that wanted him off the phone.