Cotsarelis/Garza Genetic analysis

[HairlossAt15]

What would be your current recommendation for treatment at this moment? I'm currently on RU, but I'm hearing a lot of good with tm30089 and indo/cromo from HLH.

I dont risk using untested compounds etc myself. You will have to ask someone else sorry.

[Tomb10]

Are these treatments designed to protect the yair you still got?
And in what timeframe they will develop it? 5-10-20 years?

[Thinning87]

Are these treatments designed to protect the yair you still got?
And in what timeframe they will develop it? 5-10-20 years?

A cautiously optimistic timeline is within 5-10 years IMO, and by cautiously optimistic I mean at least only one or two of all these new treatments coming through - if they really have something and will make it to market, it won't be more than 5-10 years away. 5 years is also quite conservative for Histogen and Replicel IMO, as both companies are well into their development phases already, but who knows.

[john2399]

If follica did not even start human trials yet than might as well call it a day. We wont see that treatment for another 10 years.......are we 100 percent sure they did not start human trials.......depressingggg as helllll

[Tomb10]

thanks for your answer.
But have you also an answer on my first question?
I read only of treatments that can create hopefully an percentage of new hair. But in the first place, it is a good thing to keep the hair you've got. And i know there is finasteride ru minoxidil etc.. But this isn't a cure.

I am 23, with a head full of hair, a little bit thinner at the crown and a nw 1,5. but still a lot of hair. I am using finasteride and minox for 3-4 months know. I hope that i can keep my hair with this, But i want to use it for a couple of years, not longer because i think it isn't healthy. And than hopefully there are better treatments.

[KO1]

^If you have most of your hair and are taking fin, you may NEVER need these treatments. Fin is very effective early in the process, and if you see recession, you can get FUE done.

[clandestine]

If follica did not even start human trials yet than might as well call it a day. We wont see that treatment for another 10 years.......are we 100 percent sure they did not start human trials.......depressingggg as helllll

Bro, I thought they had already done studies on humans?

[Thinning87]

thanks for your answer.
But have you also an answer on my first question?
I read only of treatments that can create hopefully an percentage of new hair. But in the first place, it is a good thing to keep the hair you've got. And i know there is finasteride ru minoxidil etc.. But this isn't a cure.

I am 23, with a head full of hair, a little bit thinner at the crown and a nw 1,5. but still a lot of hair. I am using finasteride and minox for 3-4 months know. I hope that i can keep my hair with this, But i want to use it for a couple of years, not longer because i think it isn't healthy. And than hopefully there are better treatments.

We don't know yet. Early results of Histogen and Replicel show a 5-30% regrowth range. The fact that you are still just thinning, like me, is good because regrowth is easiest where there has been some follicle miniaturization but there is still cellular activity. I promise you though stay on Fin if you think you can, I was on it at 24 and completely halted and reinforced the hair within 3 months, then quit it after 5 months because felt a decrease of libido, and then got back on it now every other day because I am not so sure it was fin. Taking it EOD seems to be working ok for now but it's too early to tell.

Keep in mind if anything comes through it won't be that far away in time, so we don't have to keep on fin for that long, so I think it's definitely worth it to halt the process now and even bear some sides if they are not too heavy, and then get off of it or decrease the dosage in the future.

Going back to your question, we have no clue how much regrowth we can get when the final products are released, as the later phases of product development for Replicel and Histogen are aimed at increasing effectiveness (more frequent injections, or higher doses, or both, we'll see).

Then there's Follica, which at this point it sounds like they may be on their way to figure out a definitive cure. I don't need to tell you about them since this thread explains it at lenght, although I do want to add to what "HairLossat15" said:

Follica seems to have done some secret testing on humans and as of 6/3/13 we know that they have successfully grown a hair follicle in humans. We don't know much more than that, so we don't really know if that means that they have tested a systematic way to do achieve cosmetically relevant results yet. In fact, there has been some confusion over the last week on whether what they have tested in humans is the new "FGF9 stuff" or the earlier stuff, but the quote "Hairlossat15" provided is definitely old, from a couple years back.

But the main point is, it sounds like Follica would have a definitive cure in mind and not just a "SuperRogaine" type of product.

[clandestine]

Great answer, Thinning.

[Thinning87]

Thanks!

[drnigams]

HirlossAT15,
I asked the same question to the presenter of the paper at WCHR,2013.
She said ,we did not find any pgd2 receptors around or on the stemcells...
Yes, i would definitely enquire further..on mail..to fuchs,cotsarelis and ..who are the main researchers in this matter ...

As of know,we know about three potential mechanism which leads to miniaturization of the follicle in an AGA scalp..
1)DHT induced damage to follicle via receptors at dermal papilla..

2)pgd2 induced damage to the follicles..with sparing of stemcells..

3)Inability of bulge stemcells to convert to progenitor cd200+,alpha 6 integrin ,hence progress to miniaturization of follicles cannot be stopped.

4)Role of certain INFLAMMATORY FACTORS(COX2,CYTOKINES,MAST CELLS SECRETED COMPONDS..ETC) AS THE FINAL COMPOUNDS IN THE INFLAMMATORY DAMAGE PATHWAYS TO THE FOLLICLE,LEADING TO MINIATURIZATION.

5)Genetic predisposition(we know little) to damage of follicles in an aga scalp,and future other reasons which we may know ..with ongoing research..

So ,this is what is the best option for us.. as on today..

1)reduce aga scalp dht levels...

2)reduce/block pgd2 levels.reduce/block micro inflammatory compounds in the final pathway of inflammatory damage..to follicle.

3)isolate stemcells from the safe non aga donor scalp,convert to progenitor active stemcells and culture to injuect back at the aga scalp..to activate the miniaturized follicles ..
4) Than we should focus on creating new safe follicles at the aga scalp,by injections of trchogenic 3d spheroidal cultured dermal papilla and trichogenic cultured stemcells of the follicles sourced from the safe donor scalp.
scalp dht and inflammatory irritants can be significantly reduced..with topicals ...this will definitely stop the progression..and will provide, a more responding scalp to stemcells and dermal papilla cultured cells to create new safe follicles.
5)We can utilize, donor doubling,to implant more and more safe follicles at the aga scalp..which will survive life long.

6)The basic medical anomalies should be corrected like..low haemoglobin,hypothyroid,nutrition,pcos,general scalp condition etc.

The challenges ahead are..
1)what makes a normal cycling telogen to convert to anagen..and what stops the miniaturized follicle in telogen in an aga scalp...to convert to anagen...
2)what is responsible... as the primary factor ..for accumulation of micro inflammatory compounds in an aga scalp..and subsequently damage to the follicle,leading to miniaturization..
3)What makes the minimal number of progenitor sem cells in a normal telogen in hair cycle to convert to anagen follicle...and what prevents the same in a miniaturized follicle..
4)Has the dermal papilla, significantly damaged in a miniaturized follicle..than trichogenic dermal papilla culture injections will help..

I do not think any single compound like fgf9,pgd2 blockers standalone..can create new hair..or reverse the mpb..as the causative pathways are 3/4..
hence the tretment approach will be holistic..

hairlossAt15;128168]More on pdg2 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3319975/)
"we found a detectable Ptgds pattern by immunostaining (Fig. 3,
D and F). Lower outer root sheath cells—but not bulge cells—expressed
Ptgds. Furthermore, at day 19 after depilation, keratinocytes in catagen
follicles expressed Ptgds, without overlapping Krt15-positive keratino-
cytes (Fig. 3G). These results demonstrate that Ptgds is abundant in
nonpermanent keratinocytes of the hair follicle in mouse."

So ptgds (ptdgs --->pdg2)is not expressed around the bulge. This explains why stem cell remain untouched in bald scalp, if ptgds was found around the bulge then perhaps stem cells would be lost as well.

More evidence can be found in the WCHR 2013 abstracts(http://www.hair2013.org/news.asp?newsid=27)
"P130
Human scalp hair follicles possess the enzymes to synthesize prostaglandins and
prostamides from phospholipids and contain PGF2ain vivo"

Dr Nigam perhaps pdg2 targets progenitor cells? What are your thoughts.[/QUOTE]

[534623]

4)Has the dermal papilla, significantly damaged in a miniaturized follicle..than trichogenic dermal papilla culture injections will help..

Do you know what "trichogenic" actually means?

I bet my ass that you're completely unable to define it - NOW! (and not tomorrow)

[drnigams]

REAGARDS TRCHOGENIC DERMAL PAPILLA CELLS....WE CONFIRM IN OUR LAB WITH Versican positive and alkaline positive cultured dermal papilla cells///whats you problem im..is something wrong with you..!
Have mentioned the same 100 times..

do you know what "trichogenic" actually means?

I bet my ass that you're completely unable to define it - now! (and not tomorrow)

[534623]

REAGARDS TRCHOGENIC DERMAL PAPILLA CELLS....WE CONFIRM IN OUR LAB WITH Versican positive and alkaline positive cultured dermal papilla cells///whats you problem im..is something wrong with you..!
Have mentioned the same 100 times..

Exactly - and you have still NO CLUE what "trichogenic" actually means!

[Phatalis]

^If you have most of your hair and are taking fin, you may NEVER need these treatments. Fin is very effective early in the process, and if you see recession, you can get FUE done.

I wish I could take fin. I mean.. if I knew it wouldn't destroy my body. If I took fin I'd be fine. I'd get a frontal HT like I am in august and I think I'd be good to go for a long long time.

But I don't trust fin.