Histogen and Aderans

[yeahyeahyeah]

Exactly, propecia is proven to work and Merck was upset with the returns they have made on it. You think Aderans is going to release a product that's not a lot better than propecia so they can make jack shit off it?

I think not.

People are too pessimistic, if this was to fail, we would have known by now.

[FearTheLoss]

+1

You guys are fretting over nothing.

Worse case scienario, it turns out to be very ineffective, and if say they still do release it - people will catch on and they will have a failed commercial product. It will be like that shit loreal product (neogenic) that didn't take off recently.

Best case scienario, more likely btw, because they have SPENT A SHIT LOAD OF CASH and gone through painstaking FDA trials - it works and people use it.

I am sure those who have invested in aderans ji gami product want a return of investment. So by releasing a shoddy product will not do it - people simply wont buy it if that is the case.

Exactly, propecia is proven to work and Merck was upset with the returns they have made on it. You think Aderans is going to release a product that's not a lot better than propecia so they can make jack shit off it?

I think not.

[yeahyeahyeah]

You're in idiot if you think aderans would release that product. They have many different products they are testing in many different areas and they are going to pick the best one. They won't release anything inferior to propecia. Do I need to go into detail as to why they wouldn't? or can you figure that out yourself?


hint. fda costs loads of money

+1

You guys are fretting over nothing.

Worse case scienario, it turns out to be very ineffective, and if say they still do release it - people will catch on and they will have a failed commercial product. It will be like that shit loreal product (neogenic) that didn't take off recently.

Best case scienario, more likely btw, because they have SPENT A SHIT LOAD OF CASH and gone through painstaking FDA trials - it works and people use it.

I am sure those who have invested in aderans ji gami product want a return of investment. So by releasing a shoddy product will not do it - people simply wont buy it if that is the case.

[hellouser]

No, you're the one who's an idiot. Everything he's said is factually true. Only 40% are responding to the treatment. Do you really think they're hiding their most effective treatment? That they would come out and post crap results for potential investors to see, unless that was really the only outcome they've had? Don't be ridiculous.

Personally, i'll be surprised to see them proceed with phase III trials with that type of response rate and the efficacy that they've produced to date. We'll see what they show when they have a full data set for phase II. If it's not much better than what they've shown, i don't know how they'll justify the massive cost of a phase III to the board of directors and the investors.

Spending that 165 million dollars on Bosley clinics would have been a waste of money if they didnt know if they had a working treatment or not. You can bank on it they do, they wouldnt ALL collectively be dumb enough to dump that much cash without a future.

[The Alchemist]

You're in idiot if you think aderans would release that product. They have many different products they are testing in many different areas and they are going to pick the best one. They won't release anything inferior to propecia. Do I need to go into detail as to why they wouldn't? or can you figure that out yourself?


hint. fda costs loads of money

No, you're the one who's an idiot. Everything he's said is factually true. Only 40% are responding to the treatment. Do you really think they're hiding their most effective treatment? That they would come out and post crap results for potential investors to see, unless that was really the only outcome they've had? Don't be ridiculous.

Personally, i'll be surprised to see them proceed with phase III trials with that type of response rate and the efficacy that they've produced to date. We'll see what they show when they have a full data set for phase II. If it's not much better than what they've shown, i don't know how they'll justify the massive cost of a phase III to the board of directors and the investors.

[FearTheLoss]

Once again I state....Aderans has only been proven to be as effective at regrowth in 40% of people and has definitely not been proven to maintain for life. Would you really be happy as **** if you wait another 3 years for this and then find out you're in the 40% that has zero response? Go back the facts from the horses mouth and NOT speculation!

You're in idiot if you think aderans would release that product. They have many different products they are testing in many different areas and they are going to pick the best one. They won't release anything inferior to propecia. Do I need to go into detail as to why they wouldn't? or can you figure that out yourself?


hint. fda costs loads of money

[HARIRI]

Aderans is taking a hair follicle from your head, extracting cells, replicating them in a petri dish and reimplanting them in your bald zones. The cells will form new hair follicles. In other words taking dermal papilla cells(essentially hair "stem cells") from non balding areas then growing them in the lab. Taking these cells and then injecting them into your scalp. New dermal papilla cells will help stimulate hair growth in current live follicles and produce new follicles.

Histogen is incubating stem cells in low gravity environment and capturing their secretions, which contain "growth factors". Whatever it is they siphon off from these cells is being injected into your bald zones and promoting regrowth. In other words Mimicking fetal (in the womb) conditions in order to create a certain ratio of proteins and growth factors that are present in the womb which cause rapid growth and cell generation, obviously in the womb we are rapidly growing. Then, filtering out proteins and other molecules deemed unnecessary for hair regeneration or that are associated with cancer growth. Finally, taking these growth factors and proteins and injecting them into the scalp. Theory is that the compounds present in the injection and the ratio they are in will stimulate new follicle cells to grow and also start dormant follicle cells to start growing again.

Desmond84, Are these definitions correct? If using them together, what will be their real roles? Will they be similar?

If Aderans will grow new hair and these hairs will be resistant to DHT 5-10 years as mentioned earlier then whats the use of adding Histogen as well if Aderans already been used???

[UK Boy]

Honestly I'd be happy as **** if they could bring a product comparable to propecia to the market that you just have to have injected once a year or whatever and doesn't have sides..or guarantees to maintain forever

Once again I state....Aderans has only been proven to be as effective at regrowth in 40% of people and has definitely not been proven to maintain for life. Would you really be happy as **** if you wait another 3 years for this and then find out you're in the 40% that has zero response? Go back the facts from the horses mouth and NOT speculation!

[jman91]

Theres a lot that can be done. A lot.

I've address this before in another thread but I'll copy/paste my initiative here. In order to speed up the process and get the product out the door we need to:

Get in touch with local, provincial/state tv news, radio, local and national newspapers, bloggers (yes, even them), get spencer to spread the word through his own connections, run campaigns via facebook, twitter, setup a website and keep it active, create videos sharing life struggles, depression, anxiety, stress, etc..... tell a story people can connect with, reach out to politicians who have other connections, organize an actual outdoor rally RIGHT IN FRONT of the FDA's head office, leave handouts, get physical signed petitions (e-petitions are worthless)... etc. etc. etc.

Its not a 'one route' rally.... you basically have to cover all areas and gain the media's attention and for them to spread the publicity. If its done right, it could go national or even international. Think of how many stupid internet campaigns exist... like the kids who asked for 1million like on Facebook to get a PS3 because their mom promised them, stupid shit like that.

I work in graphic design, marketing and web development, I'm basically the go-to guy for anything creative at my current job, which is why I also know photography quite well as I've explained before the difficulties in getting consistent photographs from Aderans/Histogen showing their results. I'm more than willing to get the ball rolling on an awareness campaign and get the FDA to give Aderans the green light soon after Phase III next year but ONLY if there are others who are willing to put in the time doing this. Otherwise, I'll be a one man team.

Basically we'd need to start off with a name, logo and mission statement. Then gather information, content, video etc. Make a website, put everything together. Then make facebook & twitter accounts to tap into social media. Then you need to make the right phone calls to the right people. I rallied 2 years ago alongside Jack Layton but it was only possible when me and my friends made enough phone calls and got on the news that he noticed us.. we partnered with other non-profit organizations and made a collaborative effort. The result? The government heard us and we won the battle (cant say which cuz it'd reveal my identity, lol). Its not hard work, its just tedious stuff that requires a lot of strategy and planning.

If anyone wants to go through with this, I can start a new thread and see what we can do as a community and get our hair back ON TIME from Aderans without the FDA screwing us over.

This post basically got ignored in the other threads but I am 100% committed to this and helping myself and everyone else in the process. I want my hair back just as anyone else here and am willing to fight for it.

you are insane

[FearTheLoss]

Honestly I'd be happy as **** if they could bring a product comparable to propecia to the market that you just have to have injected once a year or whatever and doesn't have sides..or guarantees to maintain forever

[UK Boy]

Their responder results should improve with Phase III tests seeing how they will be choosing the best method of administration. At least we can hope. However, if I recall correctly, I remember seeing one responder with a terminal hair count of up to 80% more hair.

I really don't care what they're results are at this stage, as long as they give a better treatment than whats available. I do have a feeling that an HT may still be necessary. In this case, I will be going with Dr. Gho so hopefully that will work great. I've been losing hair for about 10 years so this route should last me a while along with meds using RU/CB/Minox. After which I could easily go for Histogen treatments and just keep going through with treatment until Dr. Lauster FINALLY gets something done with a commercial product, he's got the cure already damn it.

Believe me dude, I'm so f*cking angry with hair loss, at this stage I'll be happy with whatever development gets released soon. I just want to live my life.

Lets just hope Aderans can optimize their product... after all, thats what Phase III will be for.

Hmmm....I dunno, let's hope about the responder results. I think Dr. Washnik did give some hope they might inprove however he didn't sound very hopeful. If you listen to the MESA presentation from the end of last year he talks about how they identified the genetic markers so they will be able to tell who will respond and who won't, he said if response rates didn't improve then they would at least be able to tell you if it would work or not before you went through with it all.

Didn't hear about the responder with 80% more hair do you remember where you saw that?

I do agree with everything you've said, it's just after IronMan kept going on about it a few weeks back I actually sat and properly watched the who 15 mins of the MESA presentation and after listening to what Washnik had to say I just wasn't sure exactly how worthwhile the treatment would be. Like I say it's the responder rate that bothers me the most, just seems really low for a 'future treatment.' I feel a lot of people are going to be really upset if they've waited all this time for something new and then almost half of them get told it's not gonna work for them.

[hellouser]

Dude, I'm really sorry to hear that! I totally know what you mean about losing your confidence and all! It sucks man

Let's hope you're right and count me in on any movement you wanna start!

I reckon ur right though...we should wait till the next announcement b4 doing anything! Hopefully it'll be sometimes in June.

Awesome. I'll start some kind of preliminary game plan and brainstorm some ideas. I'll make a thread and hopefully we can get spencer or the mods to help us out by making it a sticky thread and prepare a solid arsenal of contributors to help Aderans.

I'll reach out directly to them myself as well and see if they could cooperate with my efforts and see what they can do on their end to help us out.

Thanks!

[hellouser]

I'm all for speeding up the FDA, it seems ridiculous that they should need another 4 years after phase III, I've never heard of that before so I'm hoping the rep was totally wrong. However I'm worried that you're getting your hopes up too much in regards to Aderans efficacy, I don't like to be the party pooper but looking at the evidence I really can't see how Aderans is gonna greatly change many people's lives.

As I have pointed out previously they are getting regrowth comparable to Propecia in only 40% of patients. That's 4 out of every 10 people - less than half! and another 4 out of those 10 will get no benefit at all! the other 2 people get regrowth that is considered pathetic when you take into account the response people gave to Replicel's average results.

I'm only saying cos I'm worried with the way you're talking Hellouser. You're upset with how things are for you, as many of us are but you're then talking like if Aderans gets released sooner rather than later that it'll make everything right. What happens if you're one of the 40% that gets absolutely no response. It's a horrible thing to think about but it's thinking about it that's caused me to rethink my hopes of Aderans.

To me Histogen seems a lot more promising, I know they seem further off(although Gail did say possibilty of 2015 for Asia) but they said that they got 86% response rate and the figures they've given in regards to regrowth are much more promising than Aderans. Plus Histogen have tested all areas of the head and got a response and they've proven compoundability. Sometimes I really have to question what Aderans have been doing in all these years of phase II studies. I feel like they're a company full of false promise and hope that is never seen. Right from the off back in 2002 when Washnik promised HM in five years time. 11 years later and we've still got nothing and what we've got to look forward to from them sounds like injectable minox that requires a flap of your scalp everytime you want it done. I'm sure they talked about keeping your cells stored in a bank in the future but I imagine that when this first launches you'll have to have a strip of skin taken everytime you want the procedure done.

I know I'll get comments now about it being like Propecia without sides but that's not yet true! For one thing Propecia has a much higher clinical response rate and for another thing not once has Aderans said that their product stops further loss!

Sorry for the rant but I feel pissed off with Aderans and I feel sorry for those of you still getting your hopes up over it.

Their responder results should improve with Phase III tests seeing how they will be choosing the best method of administration. At least we can hope. However, if I recall correctly, I remember seeing one responder with a terminal hair count of up to 80% more hair.

I really don't care what they're results are at this stage, as long as they give a better treatment than whats available. I do have a feeling that an HT may still be necessary. In this case, I will be going with Dr. Gho so hopefully that will work great. I've been losing hair for about 10 years so this route should last me a while along with meds using RU/CB/Minox. After which I could easily go for Histogen treatments and just keep going through with treatment until Dr. Lauster FINALLY gets something done with a commercial product, he's got the cure already damn it.

Believe me dude, I'm so f*cking angry with hair loss, at this stage I'll be happy with whatever development gets released soon. I just want to live my life.

Lets just hope Aderans can optimize their product... after all, thats what Phase III will be for.

[kaandereli]

does histogen have definite a timeline for their trials?i haven't found such information on net.on the other hand , replicel told they will launch phase 2b in mid-2013 and aderans also announced that they have completed enrollment in phase 2.

does histogen have a precise timeline for their trials?

[UK Boy]

I'm all for speeding up the FDA, it seems ridiculous that they should need another 4 years after phase III, I've never heard of that before so I'm hoping the rep was totally wrong. However I'm worried that you're getting your hopes up too much in regards to Aderans efficacy, I don't like to be the party pooper but looking at the evidence I really can't see how Aderans is gonna greatly change many people's lives.

As I have pointed out previously they are getting regrowth comparable to Propecia in only 40% of patients. That's 4 out of every 10 people - less than half! and another 4 out of those 10 will get no benefit at all! the other 2 people get regrowth that is considered pathetic when you take into account the response people gave to Replicel's average results.

I'm only saying cos I'm worried with the way you're talking Hellouser. You're upset with how things are for you, as many of us are but you're then talking like if Aderans gets released sooner rather than later that it'll make everything right. What happens if you're one of the 40% that gets absolutely no response. It's a horrible thing to think about but it's thinking about it that's caused me to rethink my hopes of Aderans.

To me Histogen seems a lot more promising, I know they seem further off(although Gail did say possibilty of 2015 for Asia) but they said that they got 86% response rate and the figures they've given in regards to regrowth are much more promising than Aderans. Plus Histogen have tested all areas of the head and got a response and they've proven compoundability. Sometimes I really have to question what Aderans have been doing in all these years of phase II studies. I feel like they're a company full of false promise and hope that is never seen. Right from the off back in 2002 when Washnik promised HM in five years time. 11 years later and we've still got nothing and what we've got to look forward to from them sounds like injectable minox that requires a flap of your scalp everytime you want it done. I'm sure they talked about keeping your cells stored in a bank in the future but I imagine that when this first launches you'll have to have a strip of skin taken everytime you want the procedure done.

I know I'll get comments now about it being like Propecia without sides but that's not yet true! For one thing Propecia has a much higher clinical response rate and for another thing not once has Aderans said that their product stops further loss!

Sorry for the rant but I feel pissed off with Aderans and I feel sorry for those of you still getting your hopes up over it.