S-equol again

[cthulhu2]

I am hoping that the Nature's Sunshine product I am using is high in quality and consistency. I have seen the NatureMade product and it is a large solid pill. For those that might be interested in creating their own topical, the Nature's Sunshine product is encapsulated in powder form. The thing that is a little odd is that the researchers that have done years of studies (Lund, Setchell,etc.) don't appear to be related to either the Nature's Sunshine or NatureMade products...despite the fact that they have filed patents.

How long have you been taking naturesunshine's product? Have you been getting results with it? Forgive me if im a little skeptical of them, but I would feel much more comfortable buying a product from naturemade since they are a much larger company.

[vred]

hey PinotQ!

Thanks for the awesome info!! I've pretty much given up on nature's made and S Equol after they missed the deadline. I can't believe it's finally available. I'm jumping on the bandwagon tomorrow, this has some very interesting and exciting possibilities.

This is the first time a reputable source of S Equol is available for direct introduction. None of this "eat soy and produce S equol" crap. At the very least I'll enjoy a few less wrinkles lol. Keep us posted.

[PinotQ]

How long have you been taking naturesunshine's product? Have you been getting results with it? Forgive me if im a little skeptical of them, but I would feel much more comfortable buying a product from naturemade since they are a much larger company.

I just finished my 8th week. So my guess is that I would be nearing the point where I would be stabilizing. I believe it is way too early to make any type of assessment of overall effectiveness. As I said in a few posts above letting everyone know that Nature's Sunshine was available, my scalp feels good and my hair seems to be growing at a faster rate but that could be an illusion......only time will tell. I had the same skepticism as I had never heard of Nature's Sunshine. I called the support line and they would not disclose how they manufacture their equol, whether it has been independently tested, or even tell me whether it is s-equol vs. r-equol...........although it most certainly has to be s-equol b/c r-equol does not naturally occur in the body and therefore probably not cleared for sale. I googled them and they are a large company, they are built on multi-level marketing, and they have been around for a long time. I did not find anything negative regarding product quality in my search. It looks and sounds like a quality company from my conversations, which were pleasant and professional, and the literature looks professional. I would have preferred that they disclose more information but given the patents of others out there, including, I believe, Nature Made, for the manufacturing process, it does not surprise me that they would be tight lipped. Given the size of the company, length of time in business, and that this is just one of many products, it would be very risky on their part to jeopardize their franchise by putting out a less than credible product.........nonetheless.....it seems to happen all of the time. That being said I would still have more trust in Nature Made.

[PinotQ]

hey PinotQ!

Thanks for the awesome info!! I've pretty much given up on nature's made and S Equol after they missed the deadline. I can't believe it's finally available. I'm jumping on the bandwagon tomorrow, this has some very interesting and exciting possibilities.

This is the first time a reputable source of S Equol is available for direct introduction. None of this "eat soy and produce S equol" crap. At the very least I'll enjoy a few less wrinkles lol. Keep us posted.

I agree regarding the pill plus soy method. FYI: You have to join as a member (no cost) and there is a discount if you buy 9, you get 12 bottles. Remember, that according to the patent, if you want to be at the max end of steady state in the bloodstream, you need .5mg for every kg of body weight. When you begin, if you take 48mg, b/c of the half life, in 8 hours you are down to 24, but then you take another 48 and you are up to 72, then in 8 hours you are down to 36mg, but then you take 48 and you are up to 84. This stair steps up so that by the 5th day, if a take 48mg 3 times per day, the mg in your bloodstream holds constant at a low of 48mg and a high of 96mg. Note that this dosing amount is not clinically proven .......this is just what I am trying based on the assumptions in the patent. And remember, it is based on body weight. So if you weigh less, it takes a lower dose............and you may not want to start at the max end. Good Luck!!!

[thechamp]

Where can I buy s equol from I wonder if I will gain weight from this like I did from propecia ? Do you hoenstly think this is effective for hair loss ?

[thechamp]

How about putting a few s equol tablets in minoxdill ?

[cthulhu2]

I agree regarding the pill plus soy method. FYI: You have to join as a member (no cost) and there is a discount if you buy 9, you get 12 bottles. Remember, that according to the patent, if you want to be at the max end of steady state in the bloodstream, you need .5mg for every kg of body weight. When you begin, if you take 48mg, b/c of the half life, in 8 hours you are down to 24, but then you take another 48 and you are up to 72, then in 8 hours you are down to 36mg, but then you take 48 and you are up to 84. This stair steps up so that by the 5th day, if a take 48mg 3 times per day, the mg in your bloodstream holds constant at a low of 48mg and a high of 96mg. Note that this dosing amount is not clinically proven .......this is just what I am trying based on the assumptions in the patent. And remember, it is based on body weight. So if you weigh less, it takes a lower dose............and you may not want to start at the max end. Good Luck!!!

Thanks for the detailed post! I think I will wait to see what kind of results you get before deciding on buying the product.

[cthulhu2]

I just finished my 8th week. So my guess is that I would be nearing the point where I would be stabilizing. I believe it is way too early to make any type of assessment of overall effectiveness. As I said in a few posts above letting everyone know that Nature's Sunshine was available, my scalp feels good and my hair seems to be growing at a faster rate but that could be an illusion......only time will tell. I had the same skepticism as I had never heard of Nature's Sunshine. I called the support line and they would not disclose how they manufacture their equol, whether it has been independently tested, or even tell me whether it is s-equol vs. r-equol...........although it most certainly has to be s-equol b/c r-equol does not naturally occur in the body and therefore probably not cleared for sale. I googled them and they are a large company, they are built on multi-level marketing, and they have been around for a long time. I did not find anything negative regarding product quality in my search. It looks and sounds like a quality company from my conversations, which were pleasant and professional, and the literature looks professional. I would have preferred that they disclose more information but given the patents of others out there, including, I believe, Nature Made, for the manufacturing process, it does not surprise me that they would be tight lipped. Given the size of the company, length of time in business, and that this is just one of many products, it would be very risky on their part to jeopardize their franchise by putting out a less than credible product.........nonetheless.....it seems to happen all of the time. That being said I would still have more trust in Nature Made.

Thank you for the detailed post! I think I will wait to see what kind of results you get before buying the product. One more question, have you noticed any sides from the supplement related to finasteride, or have you never taken finasteride?

[hair200k]

Keep it Up!!

Pinot, 8 weeks wow! You've gone a long way. Don't let no body rush you. I believe in your mission. I will continue to show my support and will be checking back up on this thread. I also agree that 8 weeks is too soon to see any real results. Fin doesn't really show results until AT LEAST a few months to half a year so I wouldn't be surprised if this natural process takes even longer. You have my backing on this mission for sure.

[thechamp]

How about crushing s equol tablets in to minoxdill any one tried this ?

[PinotQ]

Thank you for the detailed post! I think I will wait to see what kind of results you get before buying the product. One more question, have you noticed any sides from the supplement related to finasteride, or have you never taken finasteride?

I have taken finastride and used minoxidil for years and I have never noticed any sides from either product. Thru 8 weeks on s-equol, I have not noticed any sides. Since I have never had any sides from anything, I am probably not the best anecdotal example. I have not seen any reported side effects from s-equol in any of the studies.

[PinotQ]

Where can I buy s equol from I wonder if I will gain weight from this like I did from propecia ? Do you hoenstly think this is effective for hair loss ?

You can buy s-equol from Nature's Sunshine......just google it. Possibly also available from Nature Made soon but no word on a release date. I do believe s-equol has the potential to shut down hairloss. Finasteride does not eliminate DHT, it just reduces it which can halt hairloss and result in some improvement. But as Dr. Rassman has said, DHT will eventually win the battle. This has been my experience. Finasteride halted my hairloss for years and I did see some slight reversal. But finasteride has gradually become less effective and DHT is winning the battle. It's all speculative at this point but here is how I look at it: It is a fact that s-equol binds to DHT with high affinity; It is not a fact that s-equol has been proven 100% safe and side effect free at any dosage, but given studies to date and the fact that s-equol appears in natural producers at 20 times higher levels than the dosage I am using, without side effects, I believe that safety, at my dosage level, is not only a reasonable assumption but highly likely; It is a fact that people naturally missing the 5 alpha reductase enzyme, who cannot therefore produce DHT, do not suffer from androgenic alopecia; The issue, in my mind, is then: What is the dosage that will eliminate DHT, and will the cost be prohibitive.

[Thinning@30]

You can buy s-equol from Nature's Sunshine......just google it. Possibly also available from Nature Made soon but no word on a release date. I do believe s-equol has the potential to shut down hairloss. Finasteride does not eliminate DHT, it just reduces it which can halt hairloss and result in some improvement. But as Dr. Rassman has said, DHT will eventually win the battle. This has been my experience. Finasteride halted my hairloss for years and I did see some slight reversal. But finasteride has gradually become less effective and DHT is winning the battle. It's all speculative at this point but here is how I look at it: It is a fact that s-equol binds to DHT with high affinity; It is not a fact that s-equol has been proven 100% safe and side effect free at any dosage, but given studies to date and the fact that s-equol appears in natural producers at 20 times higher levels than the dosage I am using, without side effects, I believe that safety, at my dosage level, is not only a reasonable assumption but highly likely; It is a fact that people naturally missing the 5 alpha reductase enzyme, who cannot therefore produce DHT, do not suffer from androgenic alopecia; The issue, in my mind, is then: What is the dosage that will eliminate DHT, and will the cost be prohibitive.

Interesting. What dosage do you take? I couldn't seem to find any information on the Nature Sunshine website about the contents of the pills. Is the product thought to convert people to S equol producers?

[PinotQ]

Interesting. What dosage do you take? I couldn't seem to find any information on the Nature Sunshine website about the contents of the pills. Is the product thought to convert people to S equol producers?

The Nature's Sunshine product contains 6mg of equol per capsule. It isn't a product that helps you convert soy to s-equol. I take 48 mg 3 times per day. See posts above for more detail.

[Thinning@30]

The Nature's Sunshine product contains 6mg of equol per capsule. It isn't a product that helps you convert soy to s-equol. I take 48 mg 3 times per day. See posts above for more detail.

Thanks. At that rate you must be going through a bottle of capsules every few days! It must cost a fortune. I have read a bit on this stuff, and it seems interesting as sort of a general anti-aging product. It sounds like there is potential for DHT binding, but I can't imagine it would do anything for hair loss, other than possibly arresting it or slowing it down.