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Did some more reading.
It was mentioned earlier in this thread and in a patent application that you need "0.2 mg/Kg - 0.5 mg/Kg" in the body to block DHT. The authors who wrote that patent have not cited any evidence which backs up that claim. To be honest it's almost impossible to achieve if you look at the graph I posted earlier because 0.2 mg = 200000 ng and we now that 30 mg of equol reaches a maximum serum level of 1200 ng / L.
There are very few human studies involving equol but I found these two which were done in 2009 and 2013.
Both studies suffer the same advantage of lacking high numbers of participants. The older used 60 mg of isoflavone (we don't know if t was equol) while the recent study used a 6mg dose of equol twice a day containing a propriety blend of R and S ( ? similar to the Natures sunshine product). However it is very interesting that both studies found that DHT levels dropped by approximately 20%.
Considering the fact that equol is found naturally and the fact that it is found in much higher concentrations in equol-producers it should be a safe supplement especially for those on Finasteride to block any remaining DHT and with a relatively small dose. For those not taking a 5 alpha reductase inhibitor will obviously have to take a lost more.
Personally, I take 1 mg of Finasteride a day. If I can get a hold of equol in the UK I plan on taking 1 tablet twice and see how I respond.Comment
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You need to take about 50mg of equol daily for it to have any material impact on DHT levels. Preferably 100mg would be better to smooth out the concentration in your blood, but that gets expensive. You should keep in mind that equol was prohibitively expensive a few years ago and now the costs have come down. I expect the costs to further come down as more people become aware of the benefits of equol.Did some more reading.
It was mentioned earlier in this thread and in a patent application that you need "0.2 mg/Kg - 0.5 mg/Kg" in the body to block DHT. The authors who wrote that patent have not cited any evidence which backs up that claim. To be honest it's almost impossible to achieve if you look at the graph I posted earlier because 0.2 mg = 200000 ng and we now that 30 mg of equol reaches a maximum serum level of 1200 ng / L.
There are very few human studies involving equol but I found these two which were done in 2009 and 2013.
Both studies suffer the same advantage of lacking high numbers of participants. The older used 60 mg of isoflavone (we don't know if t was equol) while the recent study used a 6mg dose of equol twice a day containing a propriety blend of R and S ( ? similar to the Natures sunshine product). However it is very interesting that both studies found that DHT levels dropped by approximately 20%.
Considering the fact that equol is found naturally and the fact that it is found in much higher concentrations in equol-producers it should be a safe supplement especially for those on Finasteride to block any remaining DHT and with a relatively small dose. For those not taking a 5 alpha reductase inhibitor will obviously have to take a lost more.
Personally, I take 1 mg of Finasteride a day. If I can get a hold of equol in the UK I plan on taking 1 tablet twice and see how I respond.
While I'm taking 54mg equol daily in the hopes to maintain my hair, I have noticed it has greatly reduced the wrinkles on my forehead and nearly removed the bags under my eyes after 5 weeks. That alone is going to have a huge impact on the market size for this product when more people become aware of it. Hopefully the costs will come down so much that it's priced like standard vitamins and we can take 300mg daily to achieve our objectives without the sides of Fin/Dut.Comment
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Just an update -- I've taken the second blood test, so I should get the results probably on Monday, September 29.Comment
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Does any body know users like me and cob984 both gain weight from finestride will we gain weight from equol??Comment
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Call out to cob984 man I know you gain weight from fin like me have you tried equol ??Comment
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So I've been in contact with Natures sunshine Europe to try and get it on the 'allowed list' to be imported here. Unfortunately, it will take several weeks for their legal departments to check its ok to be imported to the UK.
If you're interested in having this product in Europe, please email them to let them know of your interest. If we can generate enough interest I suspect we will be able to expedite its approval here. The email address can be found in their UK website.
The attraction of this product is that its naturally occurring and provides consistent blocking of DHT at relatively low doses. Any one taking Finasteride should consider taking this as well because we know that even 5 mg of Finasteride only blocks approximately 70% of DHT and even less in the scalp. This is the reason Finasteride only slows hair loss. I've been looking at decreasing the level of DHT over and above that from a 5 alpha reductase inhibitor alone. I have been reluctant to start Dutasteride.
The second advantage of equol is that its been shown to reduce the expression (reduce the numbers) of DHT receptors in the prostate. There are no studies looking at scalp DHT receptors but I suspect it will have a similar effect there.Comment
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Any updates hmm?Comment
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My Free DHT results are back: This test was performed on a different day with a different lab: Total DHT was 9 (vs. the 7.6 on the previous test)
Free DHT was at .66: Normal Adult Male Range 1-6.2 pg/ml. So that is a 34% reduction from the low normal range and about a 90% reduction from the high normal range.
My understanding is that finasteride works by inhibiting testosterone from being converted to DHT thus lowering total levels of DHT. Equol, on the other hand, is supposed to bind to DHT thus lowering Free DHT. However, some of the equol research seems to indicate that equol also lowers total DHT. My total DHT seems to reflect an increased reduction in total DHT over what you might expect from finasteride alone as the max reduction I could find in the clinical trials I looked at was about 72% and my reduction was about 75% but from the low range. Nonetheless, I could just be a good responder to finasteride so you can't draw any real conclusions. However, since finasteride is not known to bind to DHT, I think it highly likely that my reduction in Free DHT is directly a result of equol. I believe Free DHT is supposed to average about 1% of total DHT whether you are at normal or finasteride reduced levels of DHT. But I'll get some clarification on this from my doctor who will give me a more expert opinion on the test results. I'll keep you posted.Comment
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Wait so your posting this while you currently taking finasteride and this equol stuff? What is even the point if your on finasteride of course thats whats doing it.Comment
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Disappointing news, my blood test results are work:
No Equol: DHT 44 ng/dL
48 MG Equol: DHT 41 ng/dL
Only a three ng/dL difference in total DHT. This would make sense with PinotQ's total DHT results, as the 144mg he was taking would reduce his levels by about ~10 ng/dL, putting his finasteride-only levels around ~17 ng/dL. PinotQ, any thoughts on the results?
I'm thinking that the equol works, but it'd be prohibitively expensive. I'd think you'd need at least 250 mg daily to have an effect that'd come close to fin. That'd be just about $30/day, or about $900/month perpetually, which isn't worth it in my opinion.Comment
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Nobody commented my last few posts...
I'm going all in.
I'm ordering 100 grams of pure equol from china. I'll be taking around 0.5-1 gram DAILY, (that is 15-20x what you guys are taking - but I dont know how much of that will absorb) Anyhow, I expect that to last me 4+ months, I should see some results by then.Comment
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