Does finasteride block dht or cause the body to produce less dht?

[SoothSayer]

You also said I "provoke other members and unsuccessfully attempt to delegitimize the claims that finasteride has associated risks." which is a complete lie. that is just a fancy way of calling me a troll!

This is what I actually said, "He seems to have no other objective other than to provoke other members and unsuccessfully attempt to delegitimize the claims that finasteride has associated risks."

You are again twisting my words to alter the connotation of what I am saying and this is why you seem like a troll. Why don't you directly answer the questions? What are your objectives for obsessing over the risks of Propecia and are you employed by the pharmaceutical industry in any direct or indirect way?

[the_charger]

I did not call you insecure, I said you had an insecurity. I did not insult your intelligence, I merely pointed out that you did not grasp certain concepts. I did not call you an undercover Merck employee or a troll, but said that you appear to be acting like one. Please do not twist my words to change the connotation of what I said. Thanks.

You also said I "provoke other members and unsuccessfully attempt to delegitimize the claims that finasteride has associated risks." which is a complete lie. that is just a fancy way of calling me a troll!

you said I am insecure about my hairloss and thats why I take propecia

i'm not going to argue about you about semantics, but you were the one that asked if I was a merck employee, which is such just a completely ridiculous thing to even bring up. how exactly do I act like one? because I am interested in this topic and am involved in debating it??

If you want to continue debating the the studies and facts, im all for it, because that is whats important, but please stop mentioning all this type of crap because its really immature, even I know that. I dont care if you insinuated it or accused it, you are the one that brought these things up, and if you cant keep debating without it getting personal then you should stop debating.

[Davey Jones]

No, this is a good theory.. I unfortunately dont even know much about hormones, but I did read that estrogen levels might go up a bit when taking finasteride because DHT has been lowered. Im not sure if this would cause side effects, but it might! Maybe some guys (2&#37 just cant handle high estrogen, or maybe their estrogen levels are already high and propecia pushes it up over the edge? I really dont know.. I havent seen any studies that can really explain even why propecia causes side effects.. It would be nice if we could get some input from some medical experts in here!

Yeah, it might be possible that if their estrogen levels were slightly elevated to begin with, they may suffer side effects if the levels were caused to raise higher, past a "break point." That, or if aromatase was elevated to begin with. Or it could simply have to do with ratios (testosterone:estrogen, aromatase:5alpha-reductase, etc.) rather than a particularly high level of anything. Any number of things could be happening, but I would have to guess it has something to do with aromatase/estrogen. I'm surprised they didn't check these things.

Where did you read that they suspected that estrogen levels may go up if DHT was lowered? That would seem to support this idea. I'd like to read that, if you remember where that came from.

I bet what with these new FDA rulings and the few people who suffer being so vocal about it, Merck will want to get this figured out. And hey, guys, let's go easy on people who are suffering. You gotta understand why they may be a little passionate about the subject, even if they number very few. I mean, shouldn't you want this talked about. Wouldn't you like it if they figured this out and 100% of people could be helped by finasteride instead of 98%?

And hey, if they figured it out, you'd get to quit hearing all this whining. There's a plus, right?

[Davey Jones]

Too bad while your crying about side effects the rest of us are maintaining our hair.

Gotta be honest man: that was an incredibly f*ckin' dick thing to say.

He would probably love for finasteride to have worked fine for him. Are you seriously making fun of him for balding and suffering side effects from one of the only treatments? Usually I try to be pretty positive, but QUIT BEING A C*CK.

I'll try to be double positive for a while to make up for that.

[SoothSayer]

you are really surprising me soothsayer with your recent posts.

please remember that you are the one that is calling me insecure, constantly insulting my intelligence and recently saying im an undercover merck employee and a troll, and so on and so forth...

please also remember that i am the one that is perfectly happy discussing the actual studies and facts in our debates, and you more and more often are resorting to insulting me.. and now i couldnt believe to see you actually are saying im trying to provoke other members?

I did not call you insecure, I said you had an insecurity. I did not insult your intelligence, I merely pointed out that you did not grasp certain concepts. I did not call you an undercover Merck employee or a troll, but said that you appear to be acting like one. Please do not twist my words to change the connotation of what I said. Thanks.

[chrisis]

Too bad while your crying about side effects the rest of us are maintaining our hair.

Bob I can assure you I probably have more hair than the vast majority of men here. I'm just vain because I want to maintain the benefits that looking good unlocks.

[the_charger]

I completely agree. His comments and points have devolved to a point where he seems to have no other objective other than to provoke other members and unsuccessfully attempt to delegitimize the claims that finasteride has associated risks.

you are really surprising me soothsayer with your recent posts.

please remember that you are the one that is calling me insecure, constantly insulting my intelligence and recently saying im an undercover merck employee and a troll, and so on and so forth...

please also remember that i am the one that is perfectly happy discussing the actual studies and facts in our debates, and you more and more often are resorting to insulting me.. and now i couldnt believe to see you actually are saying im trying to provoke other members?

[bob13]

I completely agree. His comments and points have devolved to a point where he seems to have no other objective other than to provoke other members and unsuccessfully attempt to delegitimize the claims that finasteride has associated risks.

Too bad while your crying about side effects the rest of us are maintaining our hair.

[SoothSayer]

How callous to describe the experiences of men who are suffering as "propaganda". You're remarkably disrespectful and I don't even know what you're trying to "prove" anymore.

I completely agree. His comments and points have devolved to a point where he seems to have no other objective other than to provoke other members and unsuccessfully attempt to delegitimize the claims that finasteride has associated risks.

[chrisis]

You a real mess man.

Go to another site where they are constantly knocking Propecia.

It helps us, go whine somewhere else.

You're one of those that came to mind.

What are you even doing here? You don't offer anything to others in the way of advice or support. You're not particularly well-researched, articulate or intelligent. All of that would be fine, except you're rude and unpleasant.

Either contribute something to the discussions other than your unnecessary attacks, or kindly refrain from commenting.

[bob13]

STTB (StressedToTheBald) stated several times that he never tried Propecia. I don't think it makes any sense to tar victims with the same brush, as if we're all insane or something? Is this the implication of your associating him with me? There are many people on the other side of the Propecia fence who conduct themselves questionably too.

You a real mess man.

Go to another site where they are constantly knocking Propecia.

It helps us, go whine somewhere else.

[chrisis]

what motive did STTB have exactly then? he clearly had a bad experience on propecia and campaigned against it, all he posted was BS and he even went to other forums to badmouth spencer.. I dont know if you were on hair loss forums like 2 years ago but this stuff was way worse back then!

STTB (StressedToTheBald) stated several times that he never tried Propecia. I don't think it makes any sense to tar victims with the same brush, as if we're all insane or something? Is this the implication of your associating him with me? There are many people on the other side of the Propecia fence who conduct themselves questionably too.

[the_charger]

What motive do people who describe their experiences on Propecia have, to engage in a propaganda campaign against it?

what motive did STTB have exactly then? he clearly had a bad experience on propecia and campaigned against it, all he posted was BS and he even went to other forums to badmouth spencer.. I dont know if you were on hair loss forums like 2 years ago but this stuff was way worse back then!

If you took the time to check my post history on this forum I didn't even start mentioning side effects until I experienced them, and even then I simply came off the drug and patiently waited for them to abate. Now that they seem to be persisting 3 months later, I'm asking more questions and relaying my experiences to others so they can be properly informed. That can in no way be described as propanda, and suggesting so is offensive and insensitive.

please re read my post, I never once said this propaganda came from you or even anyone else that currently posts on this forum, i said this was what I saw years ago before I even started propecia.

I do agree that ultimately it comes down to opinion. You suffered no side effects, and I did - not only temporary but persistent, and undeniably related to taking Propecia. Perhaps we're both biased, but it's hard not to be biased in my position, which you'll probably never relate to.

yes I can agree with this, but in the grand scheme of things my experience and your experience arent really that helpful to people looking at starting on propecia.. people want to know how safe propecia is on a whole, and their chances of having side effects. they cant read your experience and expect to have persistent side effects any more than they can read mine and expect to do perfectly fine on it..

[chrisis]

What motive do people who describe their experiences on Propecia have, to engage in a propaganda campaign against it?

If you took the time to check my post history on this forum I didn't even start mentioning side effects until I experienced them, and even then I simply came off the drug and patiently waited for them to abate. Now that they seem to be persisting 3 months later, I'm asking more questions and relaying my experiences to others so they can be properly informed. That can in no way be described as propanda, and suggesting so is offensive and insensitive.

I do agree that ultimately it comes down to opinion. You suffered no side effects, and I did - not only temporary but persistent, and undeniably related to taking Propecia. Perhaps we're both biased, but it's hard not to be biased in my position, which you'll probably never relate to.

[the_charger]

Hey, if you don't mind and like doing a little research anyway, would you mind checking to see if they measured baseline estrogen levels before and after dosing? It always seemed to me that if a sizable amount of testosterone is not converted into DHT, it would be free to convert to estrogen. But that's just a guess.

unfortunately it doesnt look like they checked any baseline estrogen levels, just testosterone and DHT. these figures werent mentioned specifically, but they just said that men who started in the study showed no difference in testosterone/DHT levels regardless if they had sexual problems or not.

Maybe men who experience symptoms from finasteride have abnormally high levels of aromatase, and without all that 5-alpha-reductase, testosterone is left with only the excess aromatase converting it into estrogen. High estrogen in men is associated with the same side effects reported on finasteride. That would explain why only some people have symptoms (as most men don't have excess aromatase), and why symptoms only present for those few they do present for when the individual starts on finasteride (because before, 5-alpha-reductase was competing with the excess aromatase).

Anyway, that's just a guess. I'm probably just talkin' out of my ass. It would be interesting to see if that study said anything about estrogen or aromatase levels.

No, this is a good theory.. I unfortunately dont even know much about hormones, but I did read that estrogen levels might go up a bit when taking finasteride because DHT has been lowered. Im not sure if this would cause side effects, but it might! Maybe some guys (2%) just cant handle high estrogen, or maybe their estrogen levels are already high and propecia pushes it up over the edge? I really dont know.. I havent seen any studies that can really explain even why propecia causes side effects.. It would be nice if we could get some input from some medical experts in here!