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This is anecdotal but for whats its worth I went to half a pill after getting the sides from propecia shortly after and it didn't change anything. I still have the persistent sides almost four years laterComment
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I know I said this quite awhile back but I still feel the need to correct myself. When I wrote that I was thinking of .01 mg, because I was referencing an inhibition curve chart from memory.
.1 mg, which is 10x the dose, actually does seem to have a noticeable inhibition effect. Obviously not as strong as higher doses, but it's there.
Apologies for the misinformation.Comment
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That may be true in some cases but from what I have read that is not the truth. I know in my cases I have had t and dht tests done and they are perfectly normal and within range. My dht level was 56 ng/dl and the range at the lab was 27-75. My doctor put me on testim treatment even when my t numbers were not even on the low end of the range and this didn't really do anything to alleviate the persistent low libido and ed caused by propecia. The persistent sides are caused by something very complex, possibly something epigentic.
What is also interesting is that my 3 alpha diol levels were tested. 3 alpha diol is a neurosteroid and metabolite of testosterone. The test results were that my 3 alpha diol level was at 695 ng/dl, the range is 340-2200, so definitely at the low end of the range. I found this interesting becuase of how the testosterone metabolism to this neurosteroid works.
"Testosterone undergoes metabolism to neurosteroids via two distinct pathways. Aromatization of the A-ring converts testosterone into 17beta-estradiol. Reduction of testosterone by 5alpha-reductase generates 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone (DHT), which is then converted to 3alpha-androstanediol (3alpha-Diol), a powerful GABA(A) receptor-modulating neurosteroid with anticonvulsant properties."
3 alpha hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase is the enzyme which converts dht to the neurosteroid 3 alpha diol. It is also responsible for the conversion to the neurosteroids allopregnanolone and THDOC. I did not have my 3 alpha diol numbers tested before I went on propecia so I don't know if you can really draw any conclusions from this but nonetheless it is pretty interesting.
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Very interesting seattle30. This is also interesting: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8883822Comment
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Nice find fab, thanks for postingComment
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That may be true in some cases but from what I have read that is not the truth. I know in my cases I have had t and dht tests done and they are perfectly normal and within range. My dht level was 56 ng/dl and the range at the lab was 27-75. My doctor put me on testim treatment even when my t numbers were not even on the low end of the range and this didn't really do anything to alleviate the persistent low libido and ed caused by propecia. The persistent sides are caused by something very complex, possibly something epigentic.
What is also interesting is that my 3 alpha diol levels were tested. 3 alpha diol is a neurosteroid and metabolite of testosterone. The test results were that my 3 alpha diol level was at 695 ng/dl, the range is 340-2200, so definitely at the low end of the range. I found this interesting becuase of how the testosterone metabolism to this neurosteroid works.
"Testosterone undergoes metabolism to neurosteroids via two distinct pathways. Aromatization of the A-ring converts testosterone into 17beta-estradiol. Reduction of testosterone by 5alpha-reductase generates 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone (DHT), which is then converted to 3alpha-androstanediol (3alpha-Diol), a powerful GABA(A) receptor-modulating neurosteroid with anticonvulsant properties."
3 alpha hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase is the enzyme which converts dht to the neurosteroid 3 alpha diol. It is also responsible for the conversion to the neurosteroids allopregnanolone and THDOC. I did not have my 3 alpha diol numbers tested before I went on propecia so I don't know if you can really draw any conclusions from this but nonetheless it is pretty interesting.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8440186
woow, using propecia and messing with these complex pathways is really not a good idea.
if 3 alpha hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase, converts dht to 3 alpha dio then it could be that dht is low in individuals suffering from sides, as not enough is being converted.Comment
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propecia definitely messes with pathways
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In the Dr. Traish paper in the JSM it says propecia is 50 times weaker at inhibiting 5a-R1 than 5a-R2Comment
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i keep staring at the dht inhibition chart where it says that the dht is lowered by a single dose of Fin for at least 2 days without a change.
Why is it recommended to take fin everyday if dht level in the serum will stay the same?
EDIT: I`m sorry to post a link from that shitty propeciahelp site but its the only one i found where the chart is the first post.
I have to add that i take 0.5mg every day but i want to reduce it as much as i canComment
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no worries tizzle, i'm posting it here.. good question!
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Thx for posting!
i guess for people who have no sideeffects at all, there is no reason to take it every other day if there is even the slightest chance that the effect is not as good as it would be with everyday use.
But for people who are unlucky and do experience sides, taking it every other day seems to be a very good alternative.
I reduced my dose from 1.25 to 0.625 and eliminated sides. But now (a few weeks later) i think its getting e little bit worse (not bad but not perfect either, it might be in my head only though)Comment
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Checking in from a year off of fin.. feel great
I just logged back in to this site and thought I'd post an update in case anyone reads over this dead thread. It looks like its been about a year since I've been here.
Anyway, I stopped fin totally since March and to be honest the mental sides are still there but WAY less and still getting better. I was on fin for so many years I think it will take a while to get back to normal. I've noticed I've got slight gyno too... but not too bad.
I've been taking Clonazepam ( under psychiatrist supervision) at .5 mg twice per day and it has TOTALLY eradicated the brain fog. I quit taking SSRIs and feel fine as I wasn't depressed. I think fin helped my hair but the sides are not worth it. At this point if things ever go downhill I'll just go for a HT.. or HST (if that's for real).
I feel MUCH better mentally and i'll never go back on fin. My hair is doing great and I don't notice much change if at all. I use emu oil on occassion and work out regularly. I also use the Body shop ginger shampoo. No more irritation.
Overall I'm happy the fog is gone, I enjoy life again.
cheers
WillyComment
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You don't even have MPB, you have been needlessly feeding poison to your body.But my anxiety is bad and it's becoming more important than my hair
fml
Anyway, the good news is I found some pics I took on exactly Feb 2, 2002 and just took one right now for comparison. Again, I started Propecia close to when it came out in 1998. The GP hadn't even heard of it when I went to the clinic.
Over the years I've taken nothing but fin (1mg then later 1.25mg). In the last 5 years I've been using a Ginger Scalp shampoo with Piroctine olamine in it that I honestly think has done wonders for my hair. I used to be paranoid about my hair until I starting using that shampoo.
I tried minox for about 3 months in 2004 but hated it so I stopped.
Before and after shots. (white shirt is 2002, grey is today)Comment
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