Male Pattern Baldness Cured

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Well no, you described Propecia as a "testosterone reducer" - you also stated: "but mostly they will reduce your testosterone level", question: if Propecia does "a number of things" (with blocking 5AR conversion as its primary mechanism) - how can it "mostly reduce testosterone"? Unless you actually believe it's primary mechanism is to reduce testosterone, your above quote suggests not, but your previous comments suggests the opposite - you EVEN made the ridiculous claim that Propecia/DHT blockers would reduce testosterone by up to 20 percent, which would mean someone at the age of 25 taking propecia would end up with the testosterone levels of a 55-60 year old.

Actually my quote above suggests that I'm willing to concede that that argument as it is beneath the point. The point again being that if this is your equation:

Testosterone * X = DHT => Hairloss.

Then whether you reduce X (using Propecia) or if you reduce Testosterone (using other methods), you will reduce DHT, and in turn Hairloss.

It doesn't matter the method by which Propecia accomplishes this. Whether it reduces Testosterone or reduces X (the 5AR conversion factor), the result is the same. Lowered DHT.

As has been said a castration would result in drastically lowered testosterone and therefore DHT. But you seem so vehemently convinced that it's not, I'd only be led to assume that you have personally tried this yourself!

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It's all bullshit, and your attempts at concealing the fact that you are the OP are laughable.

I am not the OP. Listen I noticed frontal hair loss about a year ago (age 28), I dismissed it, as it was only noticeable when my hair was short. I got a very short hair cut a couple weeks ago, and now I'm pretty sure I do have MPB. So now I've been spending a lot of the past few weeks reading online trying to figure out how to approach this problem. I've signed up to a few hairloss forums with the name top asking questions, and hoping to get some feedback.

Ok in simple terms, because I doubt you fully read my posts. Can you answer these then:

Why don't men suffering from MPB go straight to a Norwood 7? Why is it gradual?
Does DHT cause hair loss?
Does increased testosterone produce more DHT?
Does heavy weight lifting produce more testosterone?
Does looking at porn, frequent sex/masturbation produce more testosterone?
Does testosterone not rise, and then peak (around age 30-40), and the begin to slowly fall as we age (in accordance to the graphs I posted)? (you called me on this point, so I want to know if it's bullshit or not)
Does the western diet not contribute to our higher levels of testosterone in contrast to those in Africa and Asia? (Japan having a somewhat western diet)

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Hey top ONE Word has shown that you are one of their multi accounts. Your multiple accounts made one mistake but i wont tell you and yes you are talking bullshit

Incorrect. You can ask the admin to do an IP trace. I don't know where they (whoever they are) are from. But I'm from London, UK. age 29, a computer games programmer of caribbean background. There you go. So now you are talking bullshit. I've highlighted your bullshit. Now highlight mine.

@UK: I'll level with you. Honestly, I'll hold my hands up, and tell you I don't know what Propecia does or doesn't do. It's speculation. Like most packaged drugs. In the UK we have Anadin, a painkiller, which is like a paracetomol, but they put caffeine in it, and a few other things. I'd imagine it's the samewith Propecia and all the other hair loss drugs. They have one main component, but other components that cover other things. The 20% figure I just made up, it's for argument sakes. It could be 5% could be 50%. Again I think the testosterone inhibitor is the main thing it does, but could be wrong. At the end of the day it doesn't matter whether it lowers testosterone, or whether it lowers 5AR conversion of testosterone to DHT. Either mechanism will result in lowered DHT. You do not have an argument there, you're just knit-picking.

[UK_]

Highlight the bullshit.

It's all bullshit, and your attempts at concealing the fact that you are the OP are laughable.

[UK_]

Propecia does a number of things (Many of which I think the drug company won't tell you). I doubt conversion of testosterone to DHT (via targeting 5 Alpha Reductese) is the *only* thing it does. Anyway even if it doesn't lower testosterone. Lowering the rate of Testosterone converted to DHT is good enough for my argument.

Testosterone * 5AR conversion factor = DHT.

(Lower your testosterone, or lower 5AR conversion factor, and DHT will be Lower.)

Well no, you described Propecia as a "testosterone reducer" - you also stated: "but mostly they will reduce your testosterone level", question: if Propecia does "a number of things" (with blocking 5AR conversion as its primary mechanism) - how can it "mostly reduce testosterone"? Unless you actually believe it's primary mechanism is to reduce testosterone, your above quote suggests not, but your previous comments suggests the opposite - you EVEN made the ridiculous claim that Propecia/DHT blockers would reduce testosterone by up to 20 percent, which would mean someone at the age of 25 taking propecia would end up with the testosterone levels of a 55-60 year old.

[RichardDawkins]

Hey top ONE Word has shown that you are one of their multi accounts. Your multiple accounts made one mistake but i wont tell you and yes you are talking bullshit

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The bullshit just never ends.

Highlight the bullshit. Actually better yet show me which parts of my posts you agree with. I'm still formulating my ideas. I only posted this to get others opinions to refine my theory. So please do comment.

I'm not a troll, never been to these sites before, not affiliated with any of the other posters in this thread. Just coming here with my thoughts and opinions. I was going to post something along these lines sooner or later. But when reading the OP, I agree with parts of what he said, and I felt that many of the rebuttals were very weak (e.g. pornstars not going bald, 16 year old who doesn't masturbate/have sex going bald).

To be honest, nothing of what I'm saying is bullshit. It's all just common sense. MPB is caused by DHT which is caused by Testosterone conversion via 5AR. There are many ways to alter ones testosterone. While many hair loss drugs tamper with the production of DHT to slow balding, whether it's by lowering testosterone or by reducing Testosterone=>DHT conversion rates it implies the same thing:MPB is caused by Testosterone. So when you say bullshit, I have to ask WHICH PART?

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No it doesn't - Propecia blocks the CONVERSION of testosterone to DHT through the mechanism of targeting 5AR.

Propecia does a number of things (Many of which I think the drug company won't tell you). I doubt conversion of testosterone to DHT (via targeting 5 Alpha Reductese) is the *only* thing it does. Anyway even if it doesn't lower testosterone. Lowering the rate of Testosterone converted to DHT is good enough for my argument.

Testosterone * 5AR conversion factor = DHT.

(Lower your testosterone, or lower 5AR conversion factor, and DHT will be Lower.)

You also state that "if your testosterone is rising as you age" - sorry but who on earth has a testosterone that actually RISES as you age? That's sort of like someone who comes out of the womb as an old man and dies 70 years later as a baby.

Actually it does, and then it peaks (around age 30-40). Most MPB hair loss sufferers are younger than this age, so their testosterone is still on the rise. Which is why they're experiencing MPB. Take a look at these diagrams:




Show me evidence to prove otherwise.

[UK_]

The bullshit just never ends.

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Case examples:

Teenager experiences MPB (around age 16-19). Unfortunately for him, he is one of the few where MPB is strong, the hair follicles are very sensitive to DHT. So it only takes low levels of testosterone to take the hair out. This is assuming he is not sexually active, doesn't masturbate (Virtually *ALL* males masturbate, and around *HALF* of females masturbate. Despite the popular notion that only half of males masturbate, and very few females masturbate. It's one of the biggest myths.), and doesn't get horny.

Guy in his 20's experiences MPB. Takes a drug like Propecia. It works, along with the common sexual side effects. But after a few years, the effects 'wear off'. This is because your body is genetically designed to produce more testosterone until you peak around 30-40. Propecia is just a stop gap.

Another guy in his 20's, experiences the same thing. Takes the same drug. It doesn't work, he doesn't even have the sexual side effects. This is because despite taking the drug to lower his testosterone. It's not enough as he is either a) Having more sex/looking at more porn to increase his testosterone to combat the loss (you can have a low sex drive, but can force it to rise just by subjecting yourself to horny thoughts etc.), b) He is in the gym pumping iron or c) He is eating a very bad diet, causing higher testosterone and DHT (the testosterone Losses from Propecia, are not enough to offset the testosterone Gains).

Woman gives birth. And loses hair. This affects more than half of women. This is a very high rate. I don't know too much about this. But I'd speculate that if it's from DHT, and if Propecia works. Then it's a similar thing. Showing that lots of females also have DHT sensitive hair. Further, their threshold may actually be much lower than in males. Since they usually have very little testosterone in contrast. This kind of hair loss is for women is always only temporary.

The problem with hair loss is that it's a multi variable equation. No one thing can be said to affect it. Everyone is different. A pornstar e.g. Peter North may be having sex every day and have a full set of hair. Lucky for him his hair genetically has a high DHT threshold. Whereas a 16 year old who has been a very good boy, may be losing his hair. Doesn't matter how "good" you are, your testosterone will rise, it's genetics, and if you're unfortunate to have hair which is very sensitive to DHT, then you're going to lose it. And looking at the chart, your testosterone is likely to double at it's peak, you're going to lose a lot of hair! (Patrick Stewart starting losing hair at 19)

No single one thing, whether life style, dietary, or drug will halt MPB.

If you're in your 30's and experience MPB. I think you'll be one of the lucky ones, as your testosterone will be near the peak, and will be on it's way back down. (Unless you have made a major lifestyle change to raise your testosterone to abnormally high levels).

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DHT and Hair loss

This is the last part of the equation. Hopefully others can help shed more light.

From my observations of MPB. I always find it rather strange how the hair gradually recedes (frontal), or the bald spot gradually expands (vertex - crown). How do the hair follicles know when to miniaturise in order? If it's just a case of having a critical amount of DHT on the scalp, then all the DHT-sensitive hair follicles would all miniaturise at the same time. Then within a few months one would go from a full set of hair, to the almighty Norwood 7. This does not happen.


I propose that the hair follicles on your scalp have different DHT thresholds. Those at the frontal temples have the lowest threshold. They don't need much DHT to start miniaturising. Whereas those further back have higher thresholds. Everyone (male and female) have different DHT threshold patterns. Some M shaped, some vertex shaped, some both, and some straight down the middle (females). This is determined by genetics. Those of us who have inherited MPB genes have these thresholds lower than those without (the fact there are multiple genes involved, suggests they could be for different patterns).

For most males their level of DHT follows the age-related testosterone graph:


As the level of DHT rises more hair falls victim to it. So for most males that have DHT sensitive hair. They'll see a gradual loss of hair following the typical patterns. However, if they make drastic changes to their lifestyle, and essentially raise their DHT (via raising testosterone), they'll notice a marked jump up the Norwood scale.

DHT blockers/Testosterone reducers like Propecia. Do a number of things: multivitamins/nutrients, reduce testosterone->DHT conversion. But mostly they reduce your testosterone level (which is why so many people have sexual side effects). This reduction in testosterone level, even by say 20% will put you back about 5 years (depending on how old you are - see graph above). Which will result in a halt in your hair loss (I don't think you'll gain much hair, it'll only halt the progression).

But if your testosterone is still rising as you're ageing (you still haven't peaked). Eventually the 20% reduction that the drug was helping you with is just not enough to stop your overall rise in testosterone production. And then you start experiencing hair loss again.

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Hi guys,

First with the introduction and disclaimer. I'm new here, trying to come to grips with my own recent hair loss, figure out why I'm getting it, and ways to slow/stop/reverse the progression. I've read some of this thread (about the first 4 pages), I'm not a sock puppet or troll. Just wanted to offer my non-scientific thoughts, and theories. If you disagree, or think I'm talking out of my ***, then fine, just respect my freedom of an opinion...

Okay, firstly I think many people in this thread were a little too hostile to the OP, he had some good arguments, theories, but maybe went about it the wrong way referring to his thread as a "cure". It's more a research experiment/theory.

Ok so the whole Horny Thoughts/Sex/Masturbation => Increases Testosterone. More Testosterone => More DHT. More DHT => More Hair loss. I tend to agree with this rationale. I assume people here agree with different sections of the equation.

I'm going to break this down in separate posts, so at least I'll win some support without making a faux-pas jeopardising the entire post...

Testosterone production

The first part of the equation. NOTE: I'm not tying testosterone with hairloss, this is just ways to increase production of testosterone. Which may turn out to be entirely unrelated to hairloss, but still useful, e.g. to improve your sex life, or sports etc. or to curb your sex addiction, increase productivity without distractions.

1. You need testes. (Women don't have them, and neither to Eunuchs/Castrated Men). They have very low rates of testosterone.

2. As a male, the older you get, the more testosterone you produce (until peaking around 30-40). Here's a chart or two showing testosterone levels:


3. A 'Western Diet' with the high protein and lots of fat etc. will do wonders for your testosterone. There are numerous comparisons on the internet between the testosterone levels and diet of people living in North America, Europe, Japan in contrast to the rest of Asia, Africa and other developing countries. http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/2002...tosterone.html

4. Horniness increases testosterone. Studies show that just watching porn for 15 minutes will increase male testosterone by 100%, and females by 80%. Repeated Ejaculation (via masturbation or by sex) also increases testosterone. It's similar to any other training. If you train your muscles, they'll get stronger, you train your mind, it'll get stronger. You train your testes and they'll get stronger (produce more testosterone to meet the demand). This is likely how sex addiction occurs. http://www.bodybuildingweb.net/blog/...uilding-gains/

5. Weight training. http://www.weighttraining.com/faq/do...sterone-levels

[Jcm800]

is it that you're all humoring this guy, or that you're genuinely piqued by this almost-funny–but-now–played-out bullshit? At best, this is someone having a good laugh at how much attention his joke's been able to get; at worst, he's a mental patient out of meds., peering through a scope from the top of a bell-tower, someplace.

^^^^^ lmao :d

[UK_]

I don't believe in anything. I'm just trying out all the options I have. Now, go mind your own business.

LOL@"Mind my own business..."

....This is YOUR THREAD!!! LOL

[Kamui85]

I don't believe in anything. I'm just trying out all the options I have. Now, go mind your own business.

im sorry but a forum is for discussion, if you dont want somebody minding youre buissnes then dont post them...