Bad reaction to the big 3, is HT all that's left for me?

[psychic]

Hi!

I've been in this forum for a while now, and it's been maybe 8 years since I first tried Finasteride. I'm currently 29 years old.

I most probably have bad luck with genetics, as not only do the big 3 not work for me, they cause hard side effects.

Finasteride would make my libido all over the place, with periods of being lethargic and periods of having wet dreams, but even worse it put me in a constant brain fog.
I even tried decreasing the amount down to a quarter of a small capsule.

Minoxidil caused itching and redness.

Nizoral caused itching redness and possibly shedding as well, but that was hard to tell.

I also heard a lot of many good things, just recently, about Taurine, and I tried to take them, and of course, I had harsh side effects from it, namely rebound anxiety and wet dreams.

I keep reading on these forums the importance of keeping what you have and starting early. It's been already 10 years at least since the balding process started for me and I still wasn't able to settle down on something that works, and I'm getting anxious! Even though I'm not too happy with my current situation and would've paid in spades for regrowth, I would also be forever grateful just to keep what I have!
Everyone, literally every male in my family is Norwood 7, none of them tried to combat hair loss though, and they are from a very different time period than me, so they probably didn't have much options.

Here I am, knowing where I'm headed if I don't do anything, desperate to just keep what I have, but what can I do?

Is HT possible at this stage? On the one hand it's probably too early.
On the other hand, I can't bare to stand the thought of first balding to an extreme degree, and then going to do the surgery as it will be completely clear to everyone I did this procedure and I would be judged rather harshly for doing it.

Is there another treatment I can still try that gets close to the level of the big 3?
Also is Replicel something to look forward to? Or is it mainly an HT for people who barely have any hair left? Perhaps it's less intrusive and more easily applied in small doses so that I could return and do it often without the whole world knowing I did it?

Any help is greatly appreciated!

[JustShaveIt]

Here I am, knowing where I'm headed if I don't do anything, desperate to just keep what I have, but what can I do?

Just shave it.

[psychic]

Just shave it.

Thanks for the suggestion but it isn't an option.
I have a horribly horribly narrow bone structure, even if I bulk up, I just look like a terribly narrow person with muscles. My head is long and narrow as well.
I tried doing it once and some people actually asked me if I am OK, as in if I got stricken by some horrible disease.

[Kyle Kneeland]

Without pictures of your current hair coverage it's really hard to tell you if you're eligible for a transplant, and even then they'd only be estimates since we can't measure your hair density over the internet. That being said, if you are still actively losing hair it's hard to make a case for getting a large-scale transplant done, but it's not impossible, especially since it seems extremely likely you'd end up at a NW7 so some planning ahead could be done.

In the meantime, there are other options such as laser treatments and PRP, but these are definitely less reliable as Finasteride/Minoxidil. They certainly won't hurt to try if you have no other choices. I think for now you should see a doctor who can go over those treatments more in depth with you and also better assess whether you are a transplant candidate (or estimate when you will become one). Good luck!

[psychic]

Without pictures of your current hair coverage it's really hard to tell you if you're eligible for a transplant, and even then they'd only be estimates since we can't measure your hair density over the internet. That being said, if you are still actively losing hair it's hard to make a case for getting a large-scale transplant done, but it's not impossible, especially since it seems extremely likely you'd end up at a NW7 so some planning ahead could be done.

In the meantime, there are other options such as laser treatments and PRP, but these are definitely less reliable as Finasteride/Minoxidil. They certainly won't hurt to try if you have no other choices. I think for now you should see a doctor who can go over those treatments more in depth with you and also better assess whether you are a transplant candidate (or estimate when you will become one). Good luck!

Thanks for the reply!

Indeed without showing photos it's hard to say if I'm a candidate or not, but I wanted to know is, like you mentioned, if it's even plausible given that I'm in the middle of actively losing it, i.e. it isn't stabilized, and I prefer not to wait until it's stabilized as by then I'll have nothing.

So you're saying HTs are being done even if you're not stabilized? Does this mean that beforehand follicles that are completely healthy will be removed because they are anticipated to die out in the future? Or do they leave them in there and transplant more follicules to those areas? Potentially giving rise to overly dense hair, temporarily until the DHT-sensitive follicules die out?

The problem with HT is that no matter how much research I do I end up being overwhelmed with conflicting information. People vaguely say "do your research, due diligence" but it's problematic to do it when whatever you come across is either a truth or a lie that someone pays for. Can I trust doctors that are in the IAHRS? How do I know I can? By asking other people? How do I know they are honest?
Are unethical doctors get expelled from the IAHRS?

Thanks for suggesting the alternative PRP and laser. I'm all up for trying alternative approaches, I just want to stay away from things that are downright scams as I don't want to lose precious time. I'm also looking at getting Regenepure NT 5 times a week with Nizoral in the other 2 days.
Are there any other topical products that aren't downright scams?
I also think of trying Finasteride again, but this time taking 0.25 once or twice a week and staying there. Hopefully it won't turn out to be a waste of time.

[Kyle Kneeland]

In areas where hair still exists, but has thinned, it's possible to transplant more hairs there to increase density without removing whats already there. So in some cases it may work to have a transplant where hair is actively being lost. However a lot of the ones being done simply place hair along the hairline with no regard to how hair will continue to be lost for the next 5-10 years, so the hair ends up look weird and patchy behind a strong hairline. Nobody that I know of would transplant hair to an already fully-dense area just as a precaution before thinning begins, so overly dense results is never a problem.

One of the issues with research: yes its technically possible to give a 18 year old with receded temples a full transplant, and there are doctors out there who would do it, but for the reasons above it's a pretty bad idea. Doctors just have different ideas and as with many other things, people on the internet may not always be a good representation of the real world. In general, finding a doctor who is trustworthy comes down to looking at their results and if you can talking to their previous patients. IAHRS is a great start and while I'm not super familiar with the vetting process I do know it's not particularly easy to become affiliated with them, so anyone listed is reliable.

Nizoral and Regenepure will hopefully help you. Beyond those, topical treatments just become less and less researched, and most of the evidence for or against them seems to be anecdotal. None in particular stand out to me.

[psychic]

In areas where hair still exists, but has thinned, it's possible to transplant more hairs there to increase density without removing whats already there. So in some cases it may work to have a transplant where hair is actively being lost. However a lot of the ones being done simply place hair along the hairline with no regard to how hair will continue to be lost for the next 5-10 years, so the hair ends up look weird and patchy behind a strong hairline. Nobody that I know of would transplant hair to an already fully-dense area just as a precaution before thinning begins, so overly dense results is never a problem.

One of the issues with research: yes its technically possible to give a 18 year old with receded temples a full transplant, and there are doctors out there who would do it, but for the reasons above it's a pretty bad idea. Doctors just have different ideas and as with many other things, people on the internet may not always be a good representation of the real world. In general, finding a doctor who is trustworthy comes down to looking at their results and if you can talking to their previous patients. IAHRS is a great start and while I'm not super familiar with the vetting process I do know it's not particularly easy to become affiliated with them, so anyone listed is reliable.

Nizoral and Regenepure will hopefully help you. Beyond those, topical treatments just become less and less researched, and most of the evidence for or against them seems to be anecdotal. None in particular stand out to me.

Thanks for the detailed answer!

I think I'll start with the topical products, get on fin at super low doses again, and pick a doctor out of the IAHRS based solely on location, for starters, seeing if he has good reputation, if so I'll pay him a visit. If not, I'll try the next doc in line from IAHRS.

Thanks for the help!

[markusbdc]

Thanks for the reply!

Indeed without showing photos it's hard to say if I'm a candidate or not, but I wanted to know is, like you mentioned, if it's even plausible given that I'm in the middle of actively losing it, i.e. it isn't stabilized, and I prefer not to wait until it's stabilized as by then I'll have nothing.

So you're saying HTs are being done even if you're not stabilized? Does this mean that beforehand follicles that are completely healthy will be removed because they are anticipated to die out in the future? Or do they leave them in there and transplant more follicules to those areas? Potentially giving rise to overly dense hair, temporarily until the DHT-sensitive follicules die out?

The problem with HT is that no matter how much research I do I end up being overwhelmed with conflicting information. People vaguely say "do your research, due diligence" but it's problematic to do it when whatever you come across is either a truth or a lie that someone pays for. Can I trust doctors that are in the IAHRS? How do I know I can? By asking other people? How do I know they are honest?
Are unethical doctors get expelled from the IAHRS?

Thanks for suggesting the alternative PRP and laser. I'm all up for trying alternative approaches, I just want to stay away from things that are downright scams as I don't want to lose precious time. I'm also looking at getting Regenepure NT 5 times a week with Nizoral in the other 2 days.
Are there any other topical products that aren't downright scams?
I also think of trying Finasteride again, but this time taking 0.25 once or twice a week and staying there. Hopefully it won't turn out to be a waste of time.

Have you given any consideration to RU58841- a lot of guys have had great results with it....

[VictimOfDHT]

You can start HTs any time but it does have disadvantages if you start too early however, it also has advantages too. I started my HTs when I had an almost full head of hair. My first 3 HTs were small/er ones (300-750 grafts). Then the fourth was 1700 or so. I still had a lot of native hair and you couldn't even tell I was getting all these HTs. Then I got the next HT, and then the next. The problem is that a HT is likely to cause the native existing hair to fall out from the shock. In my case, the first 3 HTs didn't cause any loss but after the 4th HT I started losing hair but the loss would occur after a year or so after an HT -I don't know why so late but this kept happening for the next 2 HTs. Here's where I'm at now - I HAVE hair, which IS the one and probably the biggest advantage of starting too early; that I NEVER was bald, although my crown is thinning rapidly now, which mean I'll probably get more HTs because I never had any there. My hair now (the transplanted area) is NOT anything it used to look before (it's just the nature of my hair being curly in the back but that's not the point). The disadvantage of starting too early is that the transplanted hairs might not be distributed evenly (due to the existing native hair). For me, even after 6 HTs I still see that some areas are a little thicker than others -not too bad or anything- and that's because of the fact that I still had a lot of native hair as mentioned, and also because some spots were thinning more than others, which is why the doctor was putting more grafts in there than in other areas (areas with less thinning). For someone who's completely bald or with little hair left, it will be much easier to place the grafts in an even and uniform pattern.

So, to sum it up, advantages of starting too early is that you can avoid going completely bald, EVER. Priceless to some people. People might not even know that you're actually going bald or that you're getting HTs.
Disadvantages : Once you start, you're almost on the hook in that you will have to keep getting more HTs in the future as the hair loss progresses. And again, in some people the shock from an HT might cause the native hair to fall out sooner or faster. They might tell you it will grow back but it might not. So, that's something to consider. And like I mentioned, chances are the grafts won't be placed evenly -if yo still have a lot of native hair- but then you can always get more HTs later to fill in the gaps.

Oh, and as for Replicell or whatever other crap (other companies) there used to be, they're all hot air. 4 or 5 years ago every body thought we would have a breakthrough in a couple of years. I think every body was saying '16 "IS THE YEAR" that we'd have a "cure" of some sort from these companies. Well,....I've said it before but I'll say it again, if any body is waiting for these companies then not only they, but their kids will be bald before these companies come up with something. So, don't put too much -if any- hope in that.

Lastly, NOT all doctors are the same. I wouldn't go by ishrs alone. There are some doctors that are much better than others and I'm sure many of the guys here have their own experiences and I think it's not hard to find the good ones depending on where you are.

[psychic]

Have you given any consideration to RU58841- a lot of guys have had great results with it....

Thanks for the suggestion.
The ingredent does seem promising, but the whole premise of becoming a scientist ordering stuff that gets warnings of "not for human consumption" and having a mini laboratory concocting materials looks unnerving.

I would expect at least a single even semi-commercial product to come out if it is indeed what is cracked up to be. Maybe I'm wrong in this assumption though.

[psychic]

You can start HTs any time but it does have disadvantages if you start too early however, it also has advantages too. I started my HTs when I had an almost full head of hair. My first 3 HTs were small/er ones (300-750 grafts). Then the fourth was 1700 or so. I still had a lot of native hair and you couldn't even tell I was getting all these HTs. Then I got the next HT, and then the next. The problem is that a HT is likely to cause the native existing hair to fall out from the shock. In my case, the first 3 HTs didn't cause any loss but after the 4th HT I started losing hair but the loss would occur after a year or so after an HT -I don't know why so late but this kept happening for the next 2 HTs. Here's where I'm at now - I HAVE hair, which IS the one and probably the biggest advantage of starting too early; that I NEVER was bald, although my crown is thinning rapidly now, which mean I'll probably get more HTs because I never had any there. My hair now (the transplanted area) is NOT anything it used to look before (it's just the nature of my hair being curly in the back but that's not the point). The disadvantage of starting too early is that the transplanted hairs might not be distributed evenly (due to the existing native hair). For me, even after 6 HTs I still see that some areas are a little thicker than others -not too bad or anything- and that's because of the fact that I still had a lot of native hair as mentioned, and also because some spots were thinning more than others, which is why the doctor was putting more grafts in there than in other areas (areas with less thinning). For someone who's completely bald or with little hair left, it will be much easier to place the grafts in an even and uniform pattern.

So, to sum it up, advantages of starting too early is that you can avoid going completely bald, EVER. Priceless to some people. People might not even know that you're actually going bald or that you're getting HTs.
Disadvantages : Once you start, you're almost on the hook in that you will have to keep getting more HTs in the future as the hair loss progresses. And again, in some people the shock from an HT might cause the native hair to fall out sooner or faster. They might tell you it will grow back but it might not. So, that's something to consider. And like I mentioned, chances are the grafts won't be placed evenly -if yo still have a lot of native hair- but then you can always get more HTs later to fill in the gaps.

Oh, and as for Replicell or whatever other crap (other companies) there used to be, they're all hot air. 4 or 5 years ago every body thought we would have a breakthrough in a couple of years. I think every body was saying '16 "IS THE YEAR" that we'd have a "cure" of some sort from these companies. Well,....I've said it before but I'll say it again, if any body is waiting for these companies then not only they, but their kids will be bald before these companies come up with something. So, don't put too much -if any- hope in that.

Lastly, NOT all doctors are the same. I wouldn't go by ishrs alone. There are some doctors that are much better than others and I'm sure many of the guys here have their own experiences and I think it's not hard to find the good ones depending on where you are.

Thanks for the interesting perspective regarding the pro and con of starting HTs early!

I'll take that into account!
I'm living a kind of a nomad lifestyle so I live in many different places and if I do end up this route, I will probably have to do those HTs at many different countries, and that's why I have to nail down a systematic way of pinpointing trust worthy surgeons. If the IAHRS is trust-worthy then that's a tremendous boon as I can quickly find ethic surgeons without too much hassle.

[psychic]

I ordered 3 different kinds of hairloss shampoos, revita, regenepure NT and Neofollics.
Together with Nizoral, I'll try to do a rotation of all 4 shampoos, aiming for a sort of a shotgun approach.

Anyone ever tried doing this thing? It seems each shampoo has somewhat different ingredients which might or might not help with hairloss, however I assume they do not contain ingredients that are counter-productive for combatting hairloss so statistically speaking if I use all of them, and each one gets a use that is not too infrequently, they all will get a chance to work their charm.

Also, I'm going back to cold showers. It seems (but only vaguely, I admit), that the period where my hairloss didn't progress as much overlaps greatly with the period I did cold showers only.

[VictimOfDHT]

I ordered 3 different kinds of hairloss shampoos, revita, regenepure NT and Neofollics.
Together with Nizoral, I'll try to do a rotation of all 4 shampoos, aiming for a sort of a shotgun approach.

Anyone ever tried doing this thing? It seems each shampoo has somewhat different ingredients which might or might not help with hairloss, however I assume they do not contain ingredients that are counter-productive for combatting hairloss so statistically speaking if I use all of them, and each one gets a use that is not too infrequently, they all will get a chance to work their charm.

Also, I'm going back to cold showers. It seems (but only vaguely, I admit), that the period where my hairloss didn't progress as much overlaps greatly with the period I did cold showers only.

I've been battling hair loss for more than one and half decades and have spent a lot of time on forums and read about all kinds of "treatments" including these fancy hair "regrowth" shampoos and all I can tell you is that most are nothing but snake oils. And for those VERY few that might work, I guarantee you that they have Minoxidil -or maybe Finasteride- in them. So, you're just buying fancy bottles of shampoo that use Minoxidil as their main ingredient for hair regrowth and you're paying a lot more for them. I'd say save your money. I've never bought anything other than Minoxidil -as topical treatment, and Fin. Everything else is most likely a snake oil. Nizoral never did anything for me. It never even helped with my dandruff even after using it for years.
I don't know anything about this "RU" stuff. I keep seeing this here and there but it looks like it's a headache to get.

[psychic]

I've been battling hair loss for more than one and half decades and have spent a lot of time on forums and read about all kinds of "treatments" including these fancy hair "regrowth" shampoos and all I can tell you is that most are nothing but snake oils. And for those VERY few that might work, I guarantee you that they have Minoxidil -or maybe Finasteride- in them. So, you're just buying fancy bottles of shampoo that use Minoxidil as their main ingredient for hair regrowth and you're paying a lot more for them. I'd say save your money. I've never bought anything other than Minoxidil -as topical treatment, and Fin. Everything else is most likely a snake oil. Nizoral never did anything for me. It never even helped with my dandruff even after using it for years.
I don't know anything about this "RU" stuff. I keep seeing this here and there but it looks like it's a headache to get.

Thanks for sharing your opinion VictimOfDHT!

I must say, none of these shampoos contain minoxidil, so you could say that they are just fancy shampoos
It's just that I haven't yet tried the route of going with more expensive shampoos than the cheap ones I get at the store which contain more harsh cleaning agents.

Admittedly, this doesn't mean it will help with hair loss, just that it something I didn't try yet. It might not do anything for me, like it didn't do anything for you.

But just like you minox and fin worked for you for a long time and those things wreaked havoc on my body, we all respond differently, so I'm at the stage of getting as much ideas as possible (albeit, I prefer to avoid snake oils, as they waste time) and trying them.

Those shampoos are one of those things that do not look like snake oil at first sight, because they contain ingredients that I keep seeing in people's posts. But of course they might end up as snake oil in the end

[VictimOfDHT]

You're welcome.
I never actually used any of these shampoos myself. Only Minox and Nizoral as topical + Fin, and even tried Dutasteride for a few months.

I don't know but I think you're new to the world of hair loss and hair loss treatment. Most guys when they're new and still not well-informed they fall for these hair "regrowth" shampoos. If I weren't skeptic by nature I would've done the same too but I also believe in the "if it sounds too good to be true it probably is...". These scammers know that many of us are so desperate that we're willing to buy and try anything. They also know that most people don't do their research. And they know that advertising WORKS. I'm sorry to say but I don't think there's even one shampoo out there that can actually regrow hair or even stop baldness. There isn't anything that does that at the moment. Not even Minoxidil or Fin can do that 100% or anywhere near that. Some of these shampoos might say they have black tea or green tea or whatever the hell other tea or other herbal ingredients but while these things might be good for the hair, I don't think they can actually stop hair loss that's caused by MPB. If these shampoos worked people would kill for them. If you're going to try something I'd say try onion juice. It'll probably do a better job than all of these shampoos. And it only costs pennies.
I know you're probably thinking well, I'll just spend $50 or $60 a couple of times and give it a try. It's not a big amount of money. And that's all these guys (sellers of snake oils) need. That's how they make their money. I don't think there are many people who keep buying these products beyond a few times........because eventually they find out that they don't work. I'm not saying every single shampoo out there is a snake oil but again I can say that NONE will actually regrow your hair or even stop you from going bald by just using that shampoo. I don't care what any body says.

I am as desperate as every body else for some miracle shampoo that I can wash my hair with and end up with a full head of hair again but I know such shampoo only existed on "Married With Children". lol.