Is "facial aging" from minoxidil real or is it just hype?

[k9gatton]

By the way, bornthisway chose to do a Minoxidil study done with rabbits.

Here's the exact title of his "proof":

Effect of lysyl hydroxylase inhibitor, minoxidil, on ultrastructure and behavior of cultured rabbit subconjunctival fibroblasts.

A "cultured" rabbit. Scare tactics. Poor job as well.

[k9gatton]

I've had enough talking to such a bright bulb. Back to hibernation. Good luck BTT!

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7672621

Minoxidil is an inhibitor of lysyl hydroxylase, an enzyme involved in collagen production, and decreases collagen production in vitro.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11760039

Minoxidil inhibited LEC migration and proliferation in vitro, as well as collagen secretion. Collagen secretion may be essential for LEC migration and proliferation.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2826267

Two important findings related to the effect of minoxidil on human skin fibroblasts in culture are reviewed. Treatment of cells with minoxidil is associated with a specific loss of lysyl hydroxylase activity; this loss occurs gradually and is reversed by removing minoxidil from the culture medium. Experiments with inhibitors of protein and RNA synthesis reveal that minoxidil may inhibit the synthesis of lysyl hydroxylase by acting at the transcriptional level. Treatment of cells with minoxidil is also associated with inhibition of proliferation, without any sign of cytotoxicity. This effect of minoxidil is accompanied by inhibition of DNA synthesis. Since collagen is the major product of fibroblast activity and lysyl hydroxylase catalyzes a crucial reaction in collagen biosynthesis, the combined effects of minoxidil offer the potential for its use as an antifibrotic agent. Thus, minoxidil may prove to be beneficial in treating skin conditions associated with collagen accumulation.

What a waste of typing for you. Again, more scare mongering tactics.

Even your own studies are inconclusive. I guess when you're fear mongering isn't working on people.

Here's the conclusion from the first study, done in vitro on RABBITS (not humans). Some scientists would say they are different from humans. Would you agree with that?

CONCLUSIONS:
The results indicated that minoxidil attenuated cellular activities of SCFs such as proliferation and migration in vitro. The exact mechanism of the inhibitory effects of minoxidil on these cellular activities is unknown. The findings suggest that the drug might help to prevent bleb scarring after glaucoma filtering surgery.

Why do you think that is?

Also, why don't you get the dosage.

You see, human beings have more BODY mass than rabbits. But you might not know that. It's true.

[NW9000]

In vivo study though, didn't show inhibition:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3985251/#B27

[bornthisway]

You're saying something that has no scientific proof, at all.

I've had enough talking to such a bright bulb. Back to hibernation. Good luck BTT!

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7672621

Minoxidil is an inhibitor of lysyl hydroxylase, an enzyme involved in collagen production, and decreases collagen production in vitro.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11760039

Minoxidil inhibited LEC migration and proliferation in vitro, as well as collagen secretion. Collagen secretion may be essential for LEC migration and proliferation.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2826267

Two important findings related to the effect of minoxidil on human skin fibroblasts in culture are reviewed. Treatment of cells with minoxidil is associated with a specific loss of lysyl hydroxylase activity; this loss occurs gradually and is reversed by removing minoxidil from the culture medium. Experiments with inhibitors of protein and RNA synthesis reveal that minoxidil may inhibit the synthesis of lysyl hydroxylase by acting at the transcriptional level. Treatment of cells with minoxidil is also associated with inhibition of proliferation, without any sign of cytotoxicity. This effect of minoxidil is accompanied by inhibition of DNA synthesis. Since collagen is the major product of fibroblast activity and lysyl hydroxylase catalyzes a crucial reaction in collagen biosynthesis, the combined effects of minoxidil offer the potential for its use as an antifibrotic agent. Thus, minoxidil may prove to be beneficial in treating skin conditions associated with collagen accumulation.

[k9gatton]

I'm not telling anyone to not use minoxidil. I only provided facts from separate studies with documented effects on collagen production. I cannot say whether or not 5% or any other concentrations will or will not result in the documented collagen issues. I personally would use minoxidil even with that side effect if it actually helped my hair loss.

FYI: You're misinterpreting and putting words out there that I did not use and being unnecessarily combative.

As a side note I really should stick to forums where people have brain cells..

So you're saying I don't have brain cells?

Guess what, I'm not using scare tactics.

Maybe misinformation has made people lose their brain cells?

Ever think about it that way. You're saying something that has no scientific proof, at all.

Show some government studies. If I tell people the sky is black, and the sun revolves around
the earth, it is my job to prove it. Am I wrong?

Prove what you say.

[bornthisway]

I'm not telling anyone to not use minoxidil. I only provided facts from separate studies with documented effects on collagen production. I cannot say whether or not 5% or any other concentrations will or will not result in the documented collagen issues. I personally would use minoxidil even with that side effect if it actually helped my hair loss.

FYI: You're misinterpreting and putting words out there that I did not use and being unnecessarily combative.

As a side note I really should stick to forums where people have brain cells..

[k9gatton]

1.
Minoxidil is an inhibitor of lysyl hydroxylase, an enzyme involved in collagen production, and decreases collagen production in vitro.

2.
Minoxidil inhibited LEC migration and proliferation in vitro, as well as collagen secretion. Collagen secretion may be essential for LEC migration and proliferation. Minoxidil also attenuated repopulation of LECs on the inner surface of organ-cultured capsules. Minoxidil may be a potential inhibitor of postoperative capsular opacification.

3.
Two important findings related to the effect of minoxidil on human skin fibroblasts in culture are reviewed. Treatment of cells with minoxidil is associated with a specific loss of lysyl hydroxylase activity; this loss occurs gradually and is reversed by removing minoxidil from the culture medium. Experiments with inhibitors of protein and RNA synthesis reveal that minoxidil may inhibit the synthesis of lysyl hydroxylase by acting at the transcriptional level. Treatment of cells with minoxidil is also associated with inhibition of proliferation, without any sign of cytotoxicity. This effect of minoxidil is accompanied by inhibition of DNA synthesis. Since collagen is the major product of fibroblast activity and lysyl hydroxylase catalyzes a crucial reaction in collagen biosynthesis, the combined effects of minoxidil offer the potential for its use as an antifibrotic agent.

Thus, minoxidil may prove to be beneficial in treating skin conditions associated with collagen accumulation.

--
I'm an old person on my phone. I'll have to link the sources later when I'm on a computer. But as long as I can remember this was a valid concern regarding minoxidil.

First off, there's a BIG difference between the oral dosage and liquid.

Let's be factual.

People can take Minoxidil in two percent, if they choose to. Are you saying two percent
will cause this damage?

I'm not a fan of Minoxidil as a first line of defense (HAIR Treatment), it probably is
TEMPORARY in the long run.

But to use scare tactics against a medication that has NO DHT side effects, in
my opinion, is illogical.

I'm sorry.

Many men in their twenties can temporarily be helped by this drug.

What next, scare people off of Nizerol? Say it causes their faces to melt?

Seriously.

Sorry, but I'm not going to waste my brain cells on bad information. I'm just
not.

[bornthisway]

It doesn't.

1.
Minoxidil is an inhibitor of lysyl hydroxylase, an enzyme involved in collagen production, and decreases collagen production in vitro.

2.
Minoxidil inhibited LEC migration and proliferation in vitro, as well as collagen secretion. Collagen secretion may be essential for LEC migration and proliferation. Minoxidil also attenuated repopulation of LECs on the inner surface of organ-cultured capsules. Minoxidil may be a potential inhibitor of postoperative capsular opacification.

3.
Two important findings related to the effect of minoxidil on human skin fibroblasts in culture are reviewed. Treatment of cells with minoxidil is associated with a specific loss of lysyl hydroxylase activity; this loss occurs gradually and is reversed by removing minoxidil from the culture medium. Experiments with inhibitors of protein and RNA synthesis reveal that minoxidil may inhibit the synthesis of lysyl hydroxylase by acting at the transcriptional level. Treatment of cells with minoxidil is also associated with inhibition of proliferation, without any sign of cytotoxicity. This effect of minoxidil is accompanied by inhibition of DNA synthesis. Since collagen is the major product of fibroblast activity and lysyl hydroxylase catalyzes a crucial reaction in collagen biosynthesis, the combined effects of minoxidil offer the potential for its use as an antifibrotic agent.

Thus, minoxidil may prove to be beneficial in treating skin conditions associated with collagen accumulation.

--
I'm an old person on my phone. I'll have to link the sources later when I'm on a computer. But as long as I can remember this was a valid concern regarding minoxidil.

[funkville]

If you overdose, yes.

I am 28, just turned 28, and people are shocked to know I am 28 because I look very young. It is not a lite reaction either, people are genuinely shocked I am in my late 20s. I look like a teenager. Youtful looking skin and facial features runs in my family. My father is 63 but all of my friends guess he's in his 40s. My mother has been confused for being my sister by strangers. etc. So you know, it would be weird to see me getting old so fast.

With that said, when I was overdosing on kirkland's minoxidil (2ml twice a day = 4ml a day) I was getting what looked like senile spots on my head. Good news is, when I toned it back down to just 1 ml twice a day, the senile spots went away in a month. So it seems like, just like the minoxidil dependant hair, the senile spots are minoxidil dependant too. I also got dark circles that were also dependant on how much minoxidil I used. I had a friend ask once if I have been fighting, that's how bad it was.

I don't use kirkland's anymore, I use Lipogaine, which doesn't make my head itch. But I still have an 8 pack there, it just expired. Since i'm on the subject, anyone knows how ineffective is expired minoxidil? I mean what ingredient exactly expires of it? Everything?

Above everything from your post the thing which Alerted me the most which was probably why you got the side effects you did is u was taking double dosage of minoxidil 2ml twice a day rather than 1ml.

I have never used Kirkland as it's not sold here in U.K. But 1ml of liquid equals 5% minoxidil. The extra alcohol and other ingredients was probably causing your sides.

[k9gatton]

You see how finasteride doesn't cause sides to everyone? It's the same with minoxidil, some users will experience face bloating, dark circles, aging skin, others won't. But those who don't shouldn't reject that it happens entirely. I don't get sides from fin, but i'm not in the group who claims that because they don't get sides then they must not exist. Minoxidil side effects exist and people do get them. You don't get them, congrats, but they exist.

Understand what you're saying. That's why I said everyone is different.

When I first joined a hair website, a couple years ago, I thought everybody had good Minoxidil reactions.

That isn't the case though. And as I also found out myself, the positive effects of Minoxidil won't last
unless there's an anti DHT agent being used. (For males with androgen alopecia, I really don't know
a lot about females who have it).

[PatientlyWaiting]

It's just hype. Some people are allergic to propylene glycerol. When that's the case, foam can be used. So
allergies might increase puffiness, but that's about it. I take very high dosages (30% cream/supplemented
with 5%). Nothing happened to my face. Everybody's different though.

You see how finasteride doesn't cause sides to everyone? It's the same with minoxidil, some users will experience face bloating, dark circles, aging skin, others won't. But those who don't shouldn't reject that it happens entirely. I don't get sides from fin, but i'm not in the group who claims that because they don't get sides then they must not exist. Minoxidil side effects exist and people do get them. You don't get them, congrats, but they exist.

[PatientlyWaiting]

If you overdose, yes.

I am 28, just turned 28, and people are shocked to know I am 28 because I look very young. It is not a lite reaction either, people are genuinely shocked I am in my late 20s. I look like a teenager. Youtful looking skin and facial features runs in my family. My father is 63 but all of my friends guess he's in his 40s. My mother has been confused for being my sister by strangers. etc. So you know, it would be weird to see me getting old so fast.

With that said, when I was overdosing on kirkland's minoxidil (2ml twice a day = 4ml a day) I was getting what looked like senile spots on my head. Good news is, when I toned it back down to just 1 ml twice a day, the senile spots went away in a month. So it seems like, just like the minoxidil dependant hair, the senile spots are minoxidil dependant too. I also got dark circles that were also dependant on how much minoxidil I used. I had a friend ask once if I have been fighting, that's how bad it was.

I don't use kirkland's anymore, I use Lipogaine, which doesn't make my head itch. But I still have an 8 pack there, it just expired. Since i'm on the subject, anyone knows how ineffective is expired minoxidil? I mean what ingredient exactly expires of it? Everything?

[funkville]

I have had eye sides from minox. I've learnt that it may actually be added ingredients and the percentage used. I started with 12.5% with alzelic acid cream from belgravia in London. My eye got puffy and looked hollow. Then went to 8% lipquid with mpg (synthetic progesterone) and caffeine twice a day. My hair grew like crazy but my eyes got sensitive to light and eyes got worse. Recently I just started using big standard 5% regaine and guess what eyes have got much better. I think it's dependent how much you can tolerate and also if you react negatively to ingredients added. Oh and for me minoxidil dries my eyes so add being infront of a screen for hours your eyes become inflamed. To combat this I use eye drops.

To add I have read about minoxidil affecting collagen. I use tretinoin cream every night to combat this and I can say it's made a difference

[Driver]

I think it is all baloney, IMHO.

[k9gatton]

Never heard of that but taking a drug that was design to treat high blood pressure twice daily must have negative effects at some level...Yes there are systemic effects even from a topical foam etc...

Really, show some proof then.