Is "facial aging" from minoxidil real or is it just hype?

[funkville]

If you overdose, yes.

I am 28, just turned 28, and people are shocked to know I am 28 because I look very young. It is not a lite reaction either, people are genuinely shocked I am in my late 20s. I look like a teenager. Youtful looking skin and facial features runs in my family. My father is 63 but all of my friends guess he's in his 40s. My mother has been confused for being my sister by strangers. etc. So you know, it would be weird to see me getting old so fast.

With that said, when I was overdosing on kirkland's minoxidil (2ml twice a day = 4ml a day) I was getting what looked like senile spots on my head. Good news is, when I toned it back down to just 1 ml twice a day, the senile spots went away in a month. So it seems like, just like the minoxidil dependant hair, the senile spots are minoxidil dependant too. I also got dark circles that were also dependant on how much minoxidil I used. I had a friend ask once if I have been fighting, that's how bad it was.

I don't use kirkland's anymore, I use Lipogaine, which doesn't make my head itch. But I still have an 8 pack there, it just expired. Since i'm on the subject, anyone knows how ineffective is expired minoxidil? I mean what ingredient exactly expires of it? Everything?

Above everything from your post the thing which Alerted me the most which was probably why you got the side effects you did is u was taking double dosage of minoxidil 2ml twice a day rather than 1ml.

I have never used Kirkland as it's not sold here in U.K. But 1ml of liquid equals 5% minoxidil. The extra alcohol and other ingredients was probably causing your sides.

[bornthisway]

It doesn't.

1.
Minoxidil is an inhibitor of lysyl hydroxylase, an enzyme involved in collagen production, and decreases collagen production in vitro.

2.
Minoxidil inhibited LEC migration and proliferation in vitro, as well as collagen secretion. Collagen secretion may be essential for LEC migration and proliferation. Minoxidil also attenuated repopulation of LECs on the inner surface of organ-cultured capsules. Minoxidil may be a potential inhibitor of postoperative capsular opacification.

3.
Two important findings related to the effect of minoxidil on human skin fibroblasts in culture are reviewed. Treatment of cells with minoxidil is associated with a specific loss of lysyl hydroxylase activity; this loss occurs gradually and is reversed by removing minoxidil from the culture medium. Experiments with inhibitors of protein and RNA synthesis reveal that minoxidil may inhibit the synthesis of lysyl hydroxylase by acting at the transcriptional level. Treatment of cells with minoxidil is also associated with inhibition of proliferation, without any sign of cytotoxicity. This effect of minoxidil is accompanied by inhibition of DNA synthesis. Since collagen is the major product of fibroblast activity and lysyl hydroxylase catalyzes a crucial reaction in collagen biosynthesis, the combined effects of minoxidil offer the potential for its use as an antifibrotic agent.

Thus, minoxidil may prove to be beneficial in treating skin conditions associated with collagen accumulation.

--
I'm an old person on my phone. I'll have to link the sources later when I'm on a computer. But as long as I can remember this was a valid concern regarding minoxidil.

[k9gatton]

1.
Minoxidil is an inhibitor of lysyl hydroxylase, an enzyme involved in collagen production, and decreases collagen production in vitro.

2.
Minoxidil inhibited LEC migration and proliferation in vitro, as well as collagen secretion. Collagen secretion may be essential for LEC migration and proliferation. Minoxidil also attenuated repopulation of LECs on the inner surface of organ-cultured capsules. Minoxidil may be a potential inhibitor of postoperative capsular opacification.

3.
Two important findings related to the effect of minoxidil on human skin fibroblasts in culture are reviewed. Treatment of cells with minoxidil is associated with a specific loss of lysyl hydroxylase activity; this loss occurs gradually and is reversed by removing minoxidil from the culture medium. Experiments with inhibitors of protein and RNA synthesis reveal that minoxidil may inhibit the synthesis of lysyl hydroxylase by acting at the transcriptional level. Treatment of cells with minoxidil is also associated with inhibition of proliferation, without any sign of cytotoxicity. This effect of minoxidil is accompanied by inhibition of DNA synthesis. Since collagen is the major product of fibroblast activity and lysyl hydroxylase catalyzes a crucial reaction in collagen biosynthesis, the combined effects of minoxidil offer the potential for its use as an antifibrotic agent.

Thus, minoxidil may prove to be beneficial in treating skin conditions associated with collagen accumulation.

--
I'm an old person on my phone. I'll have to link the sources later when I'm on a computer. But as long as I can remember this was a valid concern regarding minoxidil.

First off, there's a BIG difference between the oral dosage and liquid.

Let's be factual.

People can take Minoxidil in two percent, if they choose to. Are you saying two percent
will cause this damage?

I'm not a fan of Minoxidil as a first line of defense (HAIR Treatment), it probably is
TEMPORARY in the long run.

But to use scare tactics against a medication that has NO DHT side effects, in
my opinion, is illogical.

I'm sorry.

Many men in their twenties can temporarily be helped by this drug.

What next, scare people off of Nizerol? Say it causes their faces to melt?

Seriously.

Sorry, but I'm not going to waste my brain cells on bad information. I'm just
not.

[bornthisway]

I'm not telling anyone to not use minoxidil. I only provided facts from separate studies with documented effects on collagen production. I cannot say whether or not 5% or any other concentrations will or will not result in the documented collagen issues. I personally would use minoxidil even with that side effect if it actually helped my hair loss.

FYI: You're misinterpreting and putting words out there that I did not use and being unnecessarily combative.

As a side note I really should stick to forums where people have brain cells..

[k9gatton]

I'm not telling anyone to not use minoxidil. I only provided facts from separate studies with documented effects on collagen production. I cannot say whether or not 5% or any other concentrations will or will not result in the documented collagen issues. I personally would use minoxidil even with that side effect if it actually helped my hair loss.

FYI: You're misinterpreting and putting words out there that I did not use and being unnecessarily combative.

As a side note I really should stick to forums where people have brain cells..

So you're saying I don't have brain cells?

Guess what, I'm not using scare tactics.

Maybe misinformation has made people lose their brain cells?

Ever think about it that way. You're saying something that has no scientific proof, at all.

Show some government studies. If I tell people the sky is black, and the sun revolves around
the earth, it is my job to prove it. Am I wrong?

Prove what you say.

[bornthisway]

You're saying something that has no scientific proof, at all.

I've had enough talking to such a bright bulb. Back to hibernation. Good luck BTT!

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7672621

Minoxidil is an inhibitor of lysyl hydroxylase, an enzyme involved in collagen production, and decreases collagen production in vitro.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11760039

Minoxidil inhibited LEC migration and proliferation in vitro, as well as collagen secretion. Collagen secretion may be essential for LEC migration and proliferation.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2826267

Two important findings related to the effect of minoxidil on human skin fibroblasts in culture are reviewed. Treatment of cells with minoxidil is associated with a specific loss of lysyl hydroxylase activity; this loss occurs gradually and is reversed by removing minoxidil from the culture medium. Experiments with inhibitors of protein and RNA synthesis reveal that minoxidil may inhibit the synthesis of lysyl hydroxylase by acting at the transcriptional level. Treatment of cells with minoxidil is also associated with inhibition of proliferation, without any sign of cytotoxicity. This effect of minoxidil is accompanied by inhibition of DNA synthesis. Since collagen is the major product of fibroblast activity and lysyl hydroxylase catalyzes a crucial reaction in collagen biosynthesis, the combined effects of minoxidil offer the potential for its use as an antifibrotic agent. Thus, minoxidil may prove to be beneficial in treating skin conditions associated with collagen accumulation.

[NW9000]

In vivo study though, didn't show inhibition:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3985251/#B27

[k9gatton]

I've had enough talking to such a bright bulb. Back to hibernation. Good luck BTT!

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7672621

Minoxidil is an inhibitor of lysyl hydroxylase, an enzyme involved in collagen production, and decreases collagen production in vitro.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11760039

Minoxidil inhibited LEC migration and proliferation in vitro, as well as collagen secretion. Collagen secretion may be essential for LEC migration and proliferation.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2826267

Two important findings related to the effect of minoxidil on human skin fibroblasts in culture are reviewed. Treatment of cells with minoxidil is associated with a specific loss of lysyl hydroxylase activity; this loss occurs gradually and is reversed by removing minoxidil from the culture medium. Experiments with inhibitors of protein and RNA synthesis reveal that minoxidil may inhibit the synthesis of lysyl hydroxylase by acting at the transcriptional level. Treatment of cells with minoxidil is also associated with inhibition of proliferation, without any sign of cytotoxicity. This effect of minoxidil is accompanied by inhibition of DNA synthesis. Since collagen is the major product of fibroblast activity and lysyl hydroxylase catalyzes a crucial reaction in collagen biosynthesis, the combined effects of minoxidil offer the potential for its use as an antifibrotic agent. Thus, minoxidil may prove to be beneficial in treating skin conditions associated with collagen accumulation.

What a waste of typing for you. Again, more scare mongering tactics.

Even your own studies are inconclusive. I guess when you're fear mongering isn't working on people.

Here's the conclusion from the first study, done in vitro on RABBITS (not humans). Some scientists would say they are different from humans. Would you agree with that?

CONCLUSIONS:
The results indicated that minoxidil attenuated cellular activities of SCFs such as proliferation and migration in vitro. The exact mechanism of the inhibitory effects of minoxidil on these cellular activities is unknown. The findings suggest that the drug might help to prevent bleb scarring after glaucoma filtering surgery.

Why do you think that is?

Also, why don't you get the dosage.

You see, human beings have more BODY mass than rabbits. But you might not know that. It's true.

[k9gatton]

By the way, bornthisway chose to do a Minoxidil study done with rabbits.

Here's the exact title of his "proof":

Effect of lysyl hydroxylase inhibitor, minoxidil, on ultrastructure and behavior of cultured rabbit subconjunctival fibroblasts.

A "cultured" rabbit. Scare tactics. Poor job as well.

[k9gatton]

I've had enough talking to such a bright bulb. Back to hibernation. Good luck BTT!

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7672621

Minoxidil is an inhibitor of lysyl hydroxylase, an enzyme involved in collagen production, and decreases collagen production in vitro.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11760039

Minoxidil inhibited LEC migration and proliferation in vitro, as well as collagen secretion. Collagen secretion may be essential for LEC migration and proliferation.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2826267

Two important findings related to the effect of minoxidil on human skin fibroblasts in culture are reviewed. Treatment of cells with minoxidil is associated with a specific loss of lysyl hydroxylase activity; this loss occurs gradually and is reversed by removing minoxidil from the culture medium. Experiments with inhibitors of protein and RNA synthesis reveal that minoxidil may inhibit the synthesis of lysyl hydroxylase by acting at the transcriptional level. Treatment of cells with minoxidil is also associated with inhibition of proliferation, without any sign of cytotoxicity. This effect of minoxidil is accompanied by inhibition of DNA synthesis. Since collagen is the major product of fibroblast activity and lysyl hydroxylase catalyzes a crucial reaction in collagen biosynthesis, the combined effects of minoxidil offer the potential for its use as an antifibrotic agent. Thus, minoxidil may prove to be beneficial in treating skin conditions associated with collagen accumulation.

Second study done with rabbits. Once again. And probably a much HIGHER dose than five percent on humans??

Another fear tactic. Here's the title of his second link.

Effect of minoxidil on rabbit lens epithelial cell behavior in vitro and in situ.

[bornthisway]

In vivo study though, didn't show inhibition:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...MC3985251/#B27

Nothing can be extrapolated from the studies to say the same effect will occur in a person including the 3rd using human skin fibroblasts. I was just showing cross species documentation of minoxidil collagen suppression activity. If the 3rd study could translate in vivo that's when I'd err on the side of caution and use a low % minoxidil treatment.

[k9gatton]

Nothing can be extrapolated from the studies to say the same effect will occur in a person including the 3rd using human skin fibroblasts. I was just showing cross species documentation of minoxidil collagen suppression activity. If the 3rd study could translate in vivo that's when I'd err on the side of caution and use a low % minoxidil treatment.

Then use a low one. Not everybody uses a high concentration like I do.


It's just Minoxidil doesn't suppress DHT. Only antri androgens/Progesterone
can do that.

[WanderingOracle]

While I think the Fin sides are mostly nocebo effects, I do believe the Minox side of skin aging. Thing is, I've seen a LOT of Minox progress logs. I can say I've seen a very noticeable portion of these men(and women) look MUCH older within 2 years of starting Minox. Do people occasionally age a lot in 2 years? Yes, they do. But not in the numbers I've observed. Though I think it's a minority side-effect, I think it's a very common one. Maybe 1/3 experience something pretty significant.

And I'll also say I've witnessed more than a few examples of the reverse. Someone uses Minox for a while, and then stops, and starts looking better/younger afterwards(aside from the shedding). This is purely anecdotal. I was never going to use Minox, as it's just too much of a commitment. I know I'm too lazy to spend fifteen minutes a day scrubbing the stuff in my hair, and making it greasy. It's just not for me. I have no dog in this hunt, and I'd much prefer it to have no sides at all. But it seems to be quite common.

If you're considering it, go look for some logs of people who have a few years worth of pictures. See if you find what I have.

[k9gatton]

For the record, I take a thirty percent Minoxidil solution (yes, thirty percent). It's combined with topical Progesterone (.5%), and topical Finasteride (.1%). And I also believe there's not much benefit to taking Minxodil without an anti androgen DHT agent (either Finasteride or Dut). Because Minoxidil on its own will not keep your hair in, in the case of androgen alopecia.

And, I supplement my scalp with five percent foam. I've never had issues with my skin, or my face aging. Never.

And as I said, many people have allergic reactions to other ingredients that are mixed with the solution. Many people are allergic to glycerol. So, that said, I do believe people when they
say they have side effects.

The foam usually doesn't irritate lots of people. I would highly recommend switching to that.

Can someone be allergic to Minoxidil? Yes they can. But its a very small percent in the solution.

[marklin]

Where do you get Minoxidil solution combined with topical Progesterone (.5%), and topical Finasteride (.1%)? Can you share the information? It looks like a good product.