Snake oil?

[Herbaliser]

Science is observable, repeatable, and/or testable, falsifiable, and explains our world in a natural (instead of supernatural) way. Science can be applied to anything that exhibits these characteristics; it's not a choice of the subject whether or not it can be considered science. You are a certified nut if you somehow consider our knowledge of hair loss not science. Regardless, I do believe most people are sane enough to put their trust in what can be shown to work. Good luck getting anybody to believe you without scientific backing.

The thing is i´m not trying to convince anybody like you are.
And now you begin with sarcasm also, well that tells a lot and it would be horrifying for you if a natural treatment works.

[Pboy101]

Science is observable, repeatable, and/or testable, falsifiable, and explains our world in a natural (instead of supernatural) way. Science can be applied to anything that exhibits these characteristics; it's not a choice of the subject whether or not it can be considered science. You are a certified nut if you somehow consider our knowledge of hair loss not science. Regardless, I do believe most people are sane enough to put their trust in what can be shown to work. Good luck getting anybody to believe you without scientific backing.

[Herbaliser]

Not that I speak for the individual you just quoted. But for most users certainly(I would hope) we are interested in what can be demonstrated to work.


So if you got some ideas that does not work, you will not be able to demonstrate that they do work through scientific studies and get them independently verified.


The reason I surely hope most of the users here go with science, is because science works. It is demonstrable, and our best tool. To toss out science is to toss out the best ideas every made by humankind and is highly irrational, it will lead to superstition, like taking snake oil salesmen on face value/Faith (Faith:A firm, stoic, and sacred conviction which is both adopted and maintained independent of physical evidence or logical proof.) . At best maybe it works somewhat(In which case it can be demonstrated) or does nothing, worst case it can damages you.

And that's why we get stuff tested first. Like vaccines and other sorts of medication. I do want to point out that I find it extraordinary to have someone admit openly that they don't think hair loss is science. Perhaps you don't know what science is? I find it so utterly remarkable that someone can be so irrational with so much information available at their fingertips.

Science is defined as:

the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.

Or:

The use of evidence to construct testable explanations and predictions of natural phenomena, as well as the knolwedge generated through this process.


Doesn't this makes sense to you? This is how we figured out electricity, medication, biology, physics, pretty much all our knowledge that I can think of, well formulated into scientific theories:


A theory is a unifying principle that explains a body of experimental observations and the laws that are based on them.
Theories can also be used to predict related phenomena, so theories are constantly being tested.

Probably you didn't read my other posts.
For me, no hair loss is not science because hair loss suddenly became science for beneficial reasons (do you get my point?)
Thank you for clearing the definition of science, now i´m as patronizing as you are and at the same level.

[Trenblastoise]

Your last sentences proves my point.
For me hair loss is not science.

Not that I speak for the individual you just quoted. But for most users certainly(I would hope) we are interested in what can be demonstrated to work.


So if you got some ideas that does not work, you will not be able to demonstrate that they do work through scientific studies and get them independently verified.


The reason I surely hope most of the users here go with science, is because science works. It is demonstrable, and our best tool. To toss out science is to toss out the best ideas every made by humankind and is highly irrational, it will lead to superstition, like taking snake oil salesmen on face value/Faith (Faith:A firm, stoic, and sacred conviction which is both adopted and maintained independent of physical evidence or logical proof.) . At best maybe it works somewhat(In which case it can be demonstrated) or does nothing, worst case it can damages you.

And that's why we get stuff tested first. Like vaccines and other sorts of medication. I do want to point out that I find it extraordinary to have someone admit openly that they don't think hair loss is science. Perhaps you don't know what science is? I find it so utterly remarkable that someone can be so irrational with so much information available at their fingertips.

Science is defined as:

the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.

Or:

The use of evidence to construct testable explanations and predictions of natural phenomena, as well as the knolwedge generated through this process.


Doesn't this makes sense to you? This is how we figured out electricity, medication, biology, physics, pretty much all our knowledge that I can think of, well formulated into scientific theories:


A theory is a unifying principle that explains a body of experimental observations and the laws that are based on them.
Theories can also be used to predict related phenomena, so theories are constantly being tested.

[Herbaliser]

The reason why we don't trust unproven "natural" remedies is because they don't have a good track record of success. You say that the drug companies are the ones making money off of fear, but they have a large amount of scientific research behind their claims. These snake oil salesmen on the other hand, prey upon the fear of side effects that are stated by the drug companies and jump in with their "natural vitamins and minerals" BS with no scientific backing and sell them to you for $50 per bottle per month or whatever.

Now I understand that you are probably not trying to sell or advertise anything, but do respect our time because for hair loss sufferers, time = hair. If you really believe what you are promoting, then take the effort to document the process and let us know when you have some decent before and after pictures to show. One picture of a balding head with no time stamp and then a lot of words isn't going to convince anybody, just saying.

By the way, there are lawsuits against every single drug out there, even the simple everyday ones like tylenol and ibuprofen. It is a rather lucrative way of making money because these people who bring forth the claims lose practically nothing if they lose the case and win millions if they win. I believe there are risks to taking every medicine, albeit very very small risks, but unless you wanna go all natural and go back 1000 years to eating herbs, plants, and prayers, I think we should trust our modern day science and medicine.

Your last sentences proves my point.
For me hair loss is not science.

[Pboy101]

I´m just amazed by some of the aggressive posts, when i approach in a modest way as a alternative method.
I know your (as you mentioned us Fin users) drugs are FDA approved and therefore valid and only minor 2% with side effects, and those 2% are probably only placebo, because of all the stupid horror stories. http://www.drugwatch.com/dangerous-drugs.php

The reason why we don't trust unproven "natural" remedies is because they don't have a good track record of success. You say that the drug companies are the ones making money off of fear, but they have a large amount of scientific research behind their claims. These snake oil salesmen on the other hand, prey upon the fear of side effects that are stated by the drug companies and jump in with their "natural vitamins and minerals" BS with no scientific backing and sell them to you for $50 per bottle per month or whatever.

Now I understand that you are probably not trying to sell or advertise anything, but do respect our time because for hair loss sufferers, time = hair. If you really believe what you are promoting, then take the effort to document the process and let us know when you have some decent before and after pictures to show. One picture of a balding head with no time stamp and then a lot of words isn't going to convince anybody, just saying.

By the way, there are lawsuits against every single drug out there, even the simple everyday ones like tylenol and ibuprofen. It is a rather lucrative way of making money because these people who bring forth the claims lose practically nothing if they lose the case and win millions if they win. I believe there are risks to taking every medicine, albeit very very small risks, but unless you wanna go all natural and go back 1000 years to eating herbs, plants, and prayers, I think we should trust our modern day science and medicine.

[burtandernie]

If you think supplements and diet can stop MPB there were plenty of guys on the immortal hair program that im sure lost plenty of hair over the years going the route since that is what he pushed for years on hair loss regrowth forums. I wouldnt say its impossible it could work just that I have never seen much evidence or before/after where it made a big difference.
Everyone in prison eats the same crap for decades and hair loss is there and varied just like it is here with people eating much healthier diets. Its just hard for me to believe but anything is possible.

[Seuxin]

Natural is bullshit for fighting MPB.....

[Herbaliser]

These snake oils with pseudo-science as backup to their claims should not be trusted. We know the science behind how hair loss works and using an anti-androgen such as finasteride or dustasteride is the only way to keep hair loss at bay. Only after you have given these meds a try and find them not suitable because of side effects, then you go to the unproven, "natural vitamins and minerals" bullshyt because by that point you have nothing to lose. For 98% of us, however, fin or dut will be enough to stop the loss. To suggest these unproven and usually very expensive alternatives as primary or first lines of defense is ridiculous.

If this stuff really worked, then the person who discovers it will have no issue going through the laborious task of getting it approved for hair loss because it would be a gold mine that will last for hundreds of years.

I´m just amazed by some of the aggressive posts, when i approach in a modest way as a alternative method.
I know your (as you mentioned us Fin users) drugs are FDA approved and therefore valid and only minor 2% with side effects, and those 2% are probably only placebo, because of all the stupid horror stories. http://www.drugwatch.com/dangerous-drugs.php

[Herbaliser]

There has been thousands of natural hair loss cures like you mention with skeptical or non results.
There will either be valid natural hair loss treatment due to the ingredients, because there is no legitimate scientific evidence to support it´s efficacy.
I was also skeptical regarding the before and after videos, but i gave it a shot anyway.

I believe that the oral intake plays a big part for hair loss.
People that eat or juice a lot greens for health benefit, don't pay that much attention to the hair since there is no label confirming the benefits.
There are many cases though with aha experience that had hair issues before.
Chlorella for example has shown really good results (at least they claim so) and combining these with the snake oil gave me aha experience, i feel a nice kick in the head when i drink them.

I someone dares or wants to try it, the only side effects are a major energy boost, good base for Thai food and a nice collection of moisturizing skin care oils.
This is my experience and i´m not trying to convince anybody.
I took pictures a week ago as reference and i´m going to post soon the development.

[Notcoolanymore]

If this stuff really worked, then the person who discovers it will have no issue going through the laborious task of getting it approved for hair loss because it would be a gold mine that will last for hundreds of years.

Exactly. They could create their own "all natural" cure and make millions. It is what it is. There is NO NATURAL CURE for hair loss. It is not like people haven't been searching for a natural cure, they have, for many years.

[Pboy101]

These snake oils with pseudo-science as backup to their claims should not be trusted. We know the science behind how hair loss works and using an anti-androgen such as finasteride or dustasteride is the only way to keep hair loss at bay. Only after you have given these meds a try and find them not suitable because of side effects, then you go to the unproven, "natural vitamins and minerals" bullshyt because by that point you have nothing to lose. For 98% of us, however, fin or dut will be enough to stop the loss. To suggest these unproven and usually very expensive alternatives as primary or first lines of defense is ridiculous.

If this stuff really worked, then the person who discovers it will have no issue going through the laborious task of getting it approved for hair loss because it would be a gold mine that will last for hundreds of years.

[Herbaliser]

About three years.
But i only use half of the recommended dosage now, since i got a lot better.
Probably there are no major studies made why it helps allergies and asthma, as you mentioned it´s anti inflammatory and it clears the airway.

[warner8]

how long have you been on the mussel oil? i read its an anti inflammatory agent much like fish oil, so how does it help with allergies exactly? the studies spoke about it helping with joint pain/arthritis

http://kurera.se/musselolja-istallet-for-mediciner-2/ (Lyprinol)
Unfortunately it´s in Swedish but you can use google translate to get a picture.
Use the dosage as described on the package and for best results a month before the pollen season begins.
It helps big time also during the season also, and it was a huge relief for me as my tears, itch, and nose run stopped.
You can probably find it close to your destination.

[Ostash]

Green Tea has such a minimal impact on DHT, it won't prevent hair loss. At best, it will slow it down. Green Tea reduces DHT by %20. It may even cut your hair loss in half. But you will still go bald.

Again, this is one of the problems with the natural approach. The natural stuff actually DOES grow a few more hairs. But they do nothing to prevent DHT related death. So you boost hair growth for a short time, all the while, DHT is killing every hair on your entire head.
Emu Oil is almost like a weak Minox. It will wake a few sleeping hair follicles up. But it does nothing to prevent DHT related death. Those newly woken hairs will eventually suffer DHT related death, as will other hairs that are already awake.

Add Minox, RU, Nizoral, piroctone olamine, Emu Oil, Green Tea, Taurine, ACV. All of these will help. But with the exception of Nizoral and Green Tea, do nothing for DHT. And neither of them, do enough. Saw Pal is no alternative. It doesn't do enough(or anything) for most men.

But these things have to be coupled with a DHT blocker like Propecia, Fin, or Dur. Failing to do this, will result in long-term hair loss.

how does green tea react when you drink it?