Snake oil?

[Herbaliser]

Exactly,it is my decision to go the natural way and i am happy that it works for me.
I am so tired of all of those people who as soon as they hear the word ''natural'' they go ballistic.Let's go with minox,dut and don't give a damn about the sides effects.What the hell,at least the hair grows,right?

I read comments where guys were sharing their stories about how they experienced side effects of different drugs for hair loss and they received answers that they should continue using it.So yeah,i would rather be a special snowflake that grows hair the natural way.I am not addicted to minox,dut,etc. and i respect other people's choices.

[Y gwningen llwyd]

If you want to go down the natural route, then that is your decision. As for me, however, I prefer to stick to my regimen of Dut and Minox.

I’d like if you would report back to this exact thread with photos in ten years from now, and we will see how effective your all-natural regimen has been over that ten-year period.

Maybe you will be that special snowflake, or maybe you will be in the 99.99999% of genetic hair loss sufferers who have tried to fight nature with nature and who have continued to go naturally bald.

[Herbaliser]

One year old pictures.

[Herbaliser]

I have read several of them.

You deny that hair loss is science that's fine, it is not science in your opinion and you are entitled to have that. I just wanted to make sure that it is in fact science and you deny that, regardless of "beneficial reasons" whatever that is.

The reason why I provide definitions in a rational discussion is to make sure we are talking of the same things. And here it was as my post stated very extraordinary to see someone claim hair loss isn't science, I thought perhaps you had twisted definition of the word "science". It is not about showing superiority or arrogance, and I do not think you should consider yourself at the same level if you deny facts, that will again be your opinion. We might be at the same level that we understand the definitions provided

I see no reason to comment further so I'll let you have the last word. And wish you a great life, maybe we cross each other in some other thread!

No worries.
It´s always good to have different opinions, because then we learn from each other.

[Herbaliser]

These pictures are 12 days between.
I found a natural treatment that reg-rowed my hair and gave me health benefit also.

[Herbaliser]

Haha!

Okay! I will post pictures of my hair regrowth progress in July 2015 in order for you to observe how good natural hair loss treatments can be.

Why July 2015? Well, because I have been using this natural hair loss treatment since July 2014 and I think that 1 year is adequate time to evaluate if it is working. Well, actually, on 28 April 2015, I knew that this "non scientific" and "non-FDA approved" treatment was effectively working to regrow the hair in my vertex. But, I don't want to commit hubris just yet, so I will wait until July to show you.

I will not currently reveal more about the hair loss treatment I am using, I will only do so in July.

Make sure you come back to this thread in mid July 2015!!

My progress went over my expectation as posted in a another thread and so will yours.
Only a couple were surprised over the result, for that short of time, and the rest is surely in a denial mode because the drugs would be unnecessary.
Probably i went to far by quoting this?

[epipapilla]

Contrary to how I've been baselessly accused of in this thread, I'm actually not closed minded and I'm very open to the possibility of new hair loss treatments, even the natural ones. The only thing that it would take to convince me would be some evidence. The process of becoming an acceptable treatment is actually very easy to understand.

1. Find a treatment that you find effective.
2. Document your usage and results.
3. Have the same treatment tested and independently verified by others.
4. Become widely accepted by the hair loss community because of repeated success either with FDA approval (finasteride, minoxidil) or without (RU, CB, Ketoconazole).

It seems to me that you guys are unable to understand this concept and just want to make claims and have them accepted without any pictures, results, testing, whatsoever. Most of us are skeptical and that's a good thing. If someone in the street gave you some yellow water and said it's the elixir of life and that you should drink it, I would hope that you would be skeptical about that. The principle is no different in this case. Now if you bring some pictures of some progress, then we can start talking. Until then, snake oil remains snake oil until vindicated by evidence.

Haha!

Okay! I will post pictures of my hair regrowth progress in July 2015 in order for you to observe how good natural hair loss treatments can be.

Why July 2015? Well, because I have been using this natural hair loss treatment since July 2014 and I think that 1 year is adequate time to evaluate if it is working. Well, actually, on 28 April 2015, I knew that this "non scientific" and "non-FDA approved" treatment was effectively working to regrow the hair in my vertex. But, I don't want to commit hubris just yet, so I will wait until July to show you.

I will not currently reveal more about the hair loss treatment I am using, I will only do so in July.

Make sure you come back to this thread in mid July 2015!!

[Herbaliser]

I am not grabbing at straws at all. It appears that you have a tendency to come with many accusations at people for some reason!

I have been taking many pictures of my own hair loss and hair regrowth over the last 9 months and know that hair loss can easily be made to look worse or better with different lighting and with different angles that the head is positioned. If you look at many before and after pictures by companies selling hair loss products you will often see that the after picture has longer hair in it. These are deceptive practises that are common in the hair loss industry and done to make hair regrowth appear better than it actually is. When taking pictures that are meant to help ascertain whether you have hair regrowth progress, especially where your hair loss is not so visible, it is desirable to try to take pictures with the same length, same lighting and same head angles.

I am done responding or even reading anything you have to write, you are only fixated on Finasteride and Minoxidil. You bring nothing new to the table and seem to have a distinct inability to think outside of the box, unlike Herbaliser. Many people on this forum are looking for hair loss solutions that are different from taking or using Finasteride and Minoxidil.

Science does not exist in a vacuum, neither does hair loss. Hair loss solutions need to be applicable to real life and people need to be comfortable using them. For example, a highly significant percentage of women with cancer, up to 10%, refuse to undergo chemotherapy because they do not want to have the hair loss that is associated with it. You can explain the "science" about chemotherapy and cancer all day long to such women, but they don't care about the science, they care more about their hair!

That's Life!!

Thank you again for thinking clearly, and the approach regarding hair loss.

[Herbaliser]

Contrary to how I've been baselessly accused of in this thread, I'm actually not closed minded and I'm very open to the possibility of new hair loss treatments, even the natural ones. The only thing that it would take to convince me would be some evidence. The process of becoming an acceptable treatment is actually very easy to understand.

1. Find a treatment that you find effective.
2. Document your usage and results.
3. Have the same treatment tested and independently verified by others.
4. Become widely accepted by the hair loss community because of repeated success either with FDA approval (finasteride, minoxidil) or without (RU, CB, Ketoconazole).

It seems to me that you guys are unable to understand this concept and just want to make claims and have them accepted without any pictures, results, testing, whatsoever. Most of us are skeptical and that's a good thing. If someone in the street gave you some yellow water and said it's the elixir of life and that you should drink it, I would hope that you would be skeptical about that. The principle is no different in this case. Now if you bring some pictures of some progress, then we can start talking. Until then, snake oil remains snake oil until vindicated by evidence.

For me the treatments has gone way to far.
I was actually shocked going thru this forum, and there has to be a dictionary soon regarding all the medical terms for hair loss.

The companies are only seeing dollar bills, while the victims suffer due to our effort to fit in our shallow society that created this.
I found my way by accident and health (even if it was so called hereditary) , but it will never progress further and nobody will try it anyway.

They succeeded by making this a big market, and keep people on hold.

[Herbaliser]

I put my progress in a new thread: https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showth...icing-progress

[Pboy101]

I've seen many natural products like olive oil, coconut oil, almond oil, essential oils and herbs working like magic on hair. It's a slow and steady process that needs patient. Most of the time these things work.

Contrary to how I've been baselessly accused of in this thread, I'm actually not closed minded and I'm very open to the possibility of new hair loss treatments, even the natural ones. The only thing that it would take to convince me would be some evidence. The process of becoming an acceptable treatment is actually very easy to understand.

1. Find a treatment that you find effective.
2. Document your usage and results.
3. Have the same treatment tested and independently verified by others.
4. Become widely accepted by the hair loss community because of repeated success either with FDA approval (finasteride, minoxidil) or without (RU, CB, Ketoconazole).

It seems to me that you guys are unable to understand this concept and just want to make claims and have them accepted without any pictures, results, testing, whatsoever. Most of us are skeptical and that's a good thing. If someone in the street gave you some yellow water and said it's the elixir of life and that you should drink it, I would hope that you would be skeptical about that. The principle is no different in this case. Now if you bring some pictures of some progress, then we can start talking. Until then, snake oil remains snake oil until vindicated by evidence.

[Sondra]

I've seen many natural products like olive oil, coconut oil, almond oil, essential oils and herbs working like magic on hair. It's a slow and steady process that needs patient. Most of the time these things work.

[Trenblastoise]

Probably you didn't read my other posts.
For me, no hair loss is not science because hair loss suddenly became science for beneficial reasons (do you get my point?)
Thank you for clearing the definition of science, now i´m as patronizing as you are and at the same level.

I have read several of them.

You deny that hair loss is science that's fine, it is not science in your opinion and you are entitled to have that. I just wanted to make sure that it is in fact science and you deny that, regardless of "beneficial reasons" whatever that is.

The reason why I provide definitions in a rational discussion is to make sure we are talking of the same things. And here it was as my post stated very extraordinary to see someone claim hair loss isn't science, I thought perhaps you had twisted definition of the word "science". It is not about showing superiority or arrogance, and I do not think you should consider yourself at the same level if you deny facts, that will again be your opinion. We might be at the same level that we understand the definitions provided

I see no reason to comment further so I'll let you have the last word. And wish you a great life, maybe we cross each other in some other thread!

[epipapilla]

I think you are grabbing straws if you think that length, lighting, and angle have that much to do with the hair regrowth seen in these pictures especially when the now pictures are so much brighter than the before pictures. Notice that I took these current pictures with my phone with a poor frontal camera just on the fly so I can have something to show you.

I am not grabbing at straws at all. It appears that you have a tendency to come with many accusations at people for some reason!

I have been taking many pictures of my own hair loss and hair regrowth over the last 9 months and know that hair loss can easily be made to look worse or better with different lighting and with different angles that the head is positioned. If you look at many before and after pictures by companies selling hair loss products you will often see that the after picture has longer hair in it. These are deceptive practises that are common in the hair loss industry and done to make hair regrowth appear better than it actually is. When taking pictures that are meant to help ascertain whether you have hair regrowth progress, especially where your hair loss is not so visible, it is desirable to try to take pictures with the same length, same lighting and same head angles.

I am done responding or even reading anything you have to write, you are only fixated on Finasteride and Minoxidil. You bring nothing new to the table and seem to have a distinct inability to think outside of the box, unlike Herbaliser. Many people on this forum are looking for hair loss solutions that are different from taking or using Finasteride and Minoxidil.

Science does not exist in a vacuum, neither does hair loss. Hair loss solutions need to be applicable to real life and people need to be comfortable using them. For example, a highly significant percentage of women with cancer, up to 10%, refuse to undergo chemotherapy because they do not want to have the hair loss that is associated with it. You can explain the "science" about chemotherapy and cancer all day long to such women, but they don't care about the science, they care more about their hair!

That's Life!!

[Pboy101]

@ Pboy101,

when I first took a glance at you pictures I instantly thought, "Oh my days, where is the hair loss?"

At further detailed inspection of your pictures, the only hair loss that appears visible is that of what appears to be thinning hair in your right temple. But then, I noticed the direction of the light shinning onto your right temple, and I know that this can make your hair there appear like it it suffering more from hair loss...Next, I looked at the lighting in the 2 sets of pictures, and they are totally different, so I don't know how you can even make a "scientific comparison" from this one set of before and after pictures. Next, if you look at the angles of your head in all the comparison before and after, in the pictures of your left and right temples, the head angles are totally different. Lastly, your hair length in your 2 sets of pictures are totally different! Hair loss can easily be masked with longer hair in the "after" pictures....

So, for someone who totally seems obsessed with "science" well your before and after pictures, in my honest opinion, are not very "scientific".

Anyway, I don't want to sound like someone who is here to bash you. Hair loss is something that can affect peoples self confidence and outlook on life. Much of hair loss treatments depends on how you personally feel how it is working for you. If you feel that Finasteride is working for you then that is all that matters, just the same like if Herbaliser feels that his natural solution is working for him. There is not, and has never been a "one-fits-all" solution to any medical ailment and people should not be put down for believing that a natural solution is working for them.

Enjoy your hair, enjoy your life!

I think much more clarity will come when I organize and post every picture and tell my story in about a month. It is true that I never got very far in my hair loss (NW2, maybe?)and so it will be somewhat difficult to see the difference, but it never got far because I decided to do something about it. I no longer cut my widow's peak a millimeter or 2 just to give an illusion of an even hairline (as I did in the before picture). To be honest, if I had just kept my hair as it was a year ago and never lost anymore, I would be fine with it, but we know hair loss is progressive and so that's not the case. I first noticed the hair loss and shaved completely to see how bad it was (my first post, look it up) and it's clear that I have hair loss. For me, the most important thing is maintenance and any regrowth is extra, which is precisely what has happened. Thank you, big 3.

And although maintenance is what's really important to me, I think you are grabbing straws if you think that length, lighting, and angle have that much to do with the hair regrowth seen in these pictures especially when the now pictures are so much brighter than the before pictures. Notice that I took these current pictures with my phone with a poor frontal camera just on the fly so I can have something to show you. No matter, I will try to satisfy all your conditions and cut my hair to the exact length that it was in the before picture and take photos in the same spot, same lighting, same angles, before I post my story next month.

I'm not trying to put down anybody and I am very happy with my current hair and so I don't really visit these forums much anymore. I check in every now and then to see what's on the horizon and when to expect a cure to hit the market. While I'm here, I want to help my fellow men because hair loss affected my confidence and I want others to have success as I did. I think that the first step in the right direction is to not take a step in the wrong direction, or at least in this case the unproven direction. It is true that there's no one-size-fits-all remedy for hair loss but the percentage of success on the known medicines is so high that you should try them before going other routes. I just want everyone to be informed on their decision.

If Herbaliser thinks his natural remedies are working for him, that's perfectly fine. There's just a little more burden (the burden of proof) when you go out and make claims that this as a good remedy with little to no evidence to back it up. Other people might try this and end up wasting their their time and losing more hair if it ends up not working like the other "natural" remedies as shown by history, and that's not a good thing for the community. So all that I (and some others) am asking for is some evidence for his claims, and I don't think that's unreasonable. That's all I got to say. Good luck.