Avodart and Propecia at the same time?

[Stevieeee]

Hi

I'm new here and hope that my question has not been asked too many times.
I have been taking firstly Propecia and then later Avodart for some 10 years or more. The results when I first started using Propecia were excellent but after a while my hairline started to recede again. I then switched to Avodart which seemed to work well for a while and then my hairline again started to recede.

I have now been using both of them at the same time, taking Propecia in the morning and Avodart at night. Unfortunately I still have a slowly receding hairline.

Does anyone have any advice/opinion of whether the two drugs taken together are counterproductive? And are there other things I could/should be doing?

Thanks

Steve

[strife91]

If fin and dut won't maintain your hairline I guess try ru

[JulioGP]

Friend, I think that what you're doing means something absurd.

The most that I followed to date is using Finasteride every day and 1 time per week Avodart. You are bombarding your prostate with these two drugs taken simultaneously, and the Avodart is much stronger than Finasteride.

Furthermore, Avodart (dutasteride) was no approved for even baldness, but prostatic hyperplasia only.

If you want to use Avodart, do as I and some here in Brazil. Use as a topic. Mix 6 capsules avodart (the liquid inside the capsules) for every 20mls of Minoxidil or any other solution you can pass on the scalp and leave for a few hours.

Moreover, there are studies showing that topical use is far more efficient and less harmful in terms of side effects.

[Dan26]

Moreover, there are studies showing that topical use is far more efficient and less harmful in terms of side effects.

Can you post these. The consensus in the community is that fin/dut work by lowering DHT systemically. Any benefit you get from topical dut is from the amount that is absorbed and the subsequent DHT that is reduced systemically.

If he took your advice Julio his serum DHT would shoot up and he would likely start losing more hair.

-----

To the OP, I'd suggest to just take the avodart. There is a small chance you may respond better to fin than dut (in terms of DHT inhibition), so if you do notice your hair going downhill after droppping fin feel free to add it back.

The hairline is really hard to stop and/or regrow. I'd consider a topical AA like RU or to just go for an HT.

[JulioGP]

This study has been published and discussed here in the Forum.

Here:

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=12181&highlight=P-3074&page=54

""This was presented at the 7th world congress of hair research:

P040
Pharmacodynamic of P-3074 (finasteride 0.25% topical solution) in subjects with
androgenetic alopecia

M Caserini1, R Palmieri1, M Radicioni2 and E Terragni2 1Polichem S.A., Lugano, Switzerland and
2Cross Research S.A., Arzo, Switzerland

A new proprietary topical formulation, P-3074, containing finasteride 0.25% as active ingredient
and hydroxypropyl-chitosan (HPCH) as film-forming agent, was developed for androgenetic
alopecia. The present study was aimed at investigating the pharmacodynamic profile of
finasteride in terms of dihydrotestosterone (DHT) concentrations in the scalp and in serum after
multiple topical application of P-3074 or oral finasteride intake in subjects with androgenetic
alopecia. Eighteen healthy men were randomly allocated to P-3074 or oral treatment after
providing written informed consent. Twelve volunteers applied P-3074 topical solution for 7
days: six subjects once daily (o.d.) in the morning and the others twice daily (b.i.d.) in the morning
and in the evening. The third group of six volunteers was administered 1mg oral finasteride once
daily in the morning for 1 week. Scalp (vertex) biopsies were collected at baseline and 6 hours
after last dose administration, while serum samples were collected at baseline, before last
administration, and 6 and 12 hours after the last multiple dose.

A marked decrease in scalp DHT levels was observed:

by 47.22% with P-3074 b.i.d., from 1.91 (±0.54) to 1.01 ng ml1 (±0.39),
by 71.20% with P-3074 o.d., from 1.52 (±0.41) to 0.44 ng ml1 (±0.0, and
by 51.11% with the oral formulation, from 1.39 (±0.25) to 0.68 ng ml1 (±0.34).

Serum DHT was reduced by
69.3–74.0% with P-3074 b.i.d., 67.6–80.4% with P-3074 o.d., and
69.7–76.1% with the oral formulation.

These results showed a similar inhibition of serum DHT after 1 week of finasteride
administration with the three dose regimens and were consistent with the results obtained in a
previous P-3074 PK study. These findings show that DHT concentration in the scalp, after 7-day
treatment course of P-3074 o.d., was more reduced (about 40%) than after 1mg oral finasteride
administration for the same treatment period."

[Dan26]

Wasn't that with a specific patented topical formulat though Julio? A traditional vehicle would not have the same effect.

Also, Scalp DHT isn't the best statistic to go on. There is an abvious correlation between scalp DHT and haircount, but also some very confusing numbers in fin studies. ie 0.05mg fin lowering scalp DHT by more than 0.5mg fin

It's the 5ar in the DP that is important not scalp.

----

My opinion, unless you have sides on fin/dut, don't risk using the topical as it will not be as effective.

If you do have sides, try it out.

[kobefan234]

your estradiol will increase on fin + dut

[Stevieeee]

Hi kobefan234. But is an increased level of estradiol a good thing or a bead thing? I've been checking this morning on various sites and I have read comments that state that this is both a negative and positive things as far as DHT and hairloss is concerned.

[kobefan234]

Hi kobefan234. But is an increased level of estradiol a good thing or a bead thing? I've been checking this morning on various sites and I have read comments that state that this is both a negative and positive things as far as DHT and hairloss is concerned.

Steviee, estradiol is a form of estrogen. All males have some estrogen but the amounts should be kept between ( 8 pg/mL - 43 ). ( from what I learned in school) high estradiol can lead to gynecomastia if you are sensitive

When you block Testosterone to DHT with Avodart + Propecia which I assume is 0.5 mg Avodart per day and 1 mg of fin per day your estradiol might become a little higher than you want which can lead to side effects.

[konfusion]

There was one Australian dude who added I guess a single dose of 0,5 mg Dutasteride per week to his ongoing Finasteride regimen and had very good results and if I am not mistaken case is documented and must be available somewhere. But it's only one person so it should not be taken as a scientific fact.
Since I used Avodart for 14 months (6 months 0,5 mg per day and 8 months 1 mg per day) I think I have something to say about it. In my experience, it is no different from Finasteride. It really looks promising on paper but in practice, no cosmetic change for me. Actually looking back, my itch was worse when I was on Avodart and I think I lost some ground too but I can't correlate that to Avodart since it might be the ongoing effects of my aggressive mpb. All in all even 1 mg Avodart failed to halt it. I was not expecting growth, but it simply did not maintain either so it's no miracle for aggressive mpb.
On the other hand I always wondered why Glaxo never got it approved for hair loss, why did they stop testing it? Is it due to side effects? I don't think so, I did not have any additional sexual side effects from Avodart compared to Finasteride. By this I mean I experienced a slight decrease in semen volume on Finasteride, and Avodart was also the same. Libido is not effected.
I also got my T levels tested both on Finasteride and Avodart, Avodart only increased my serum levels slightly better than Finasteride. On paper my levels should have been skyrocket high since it inhibits serum DHT by more than 90%.
So I believe side effects is not the only issue why Glaxo did not pursue this. I think it is not much better than Finasteride and I read somewhere that Finasteride also does other things than just to lower DHT (might be related to PGD2 levels or something like that I really can't remember where I saw this) which Avodart does not.