Using just a Dermaroller. What can i expect?

[hellouser]

You mean while also using minoxidil?

If not, keep in mind that MPB is a gene. You can't just roll little needles on your head and it will stop the hairloss. I'm pretty sure the whole point of a dermaroller is for more minoxidil absorption.

1) You're wrong on every account.
2) Its not about just 'rolling' little needles on your head.
3) Minoxidil absorption has NOTHING to do with it.

The objective and facts are:

Dermarolling is not meant for absorption but for WOUNDING. It is a known FACT that when wounding occurs, WNT and FGF-9 is induced during the healing process. Keep in mind WNT is the same stuff Histogen is using for their method of injections, so this already holds weight. FGF-9 was shown to grow a significant amount of hair on mice but when removed, hair did not grow. A similar pattern occurs during the wounding process in human scalp, however FGF-9 is produced in lower numbers. It is however thought that the addition of Minoxidil AFTER wounding will elevate PGE2 levels which in itself also elevates FGF-9. FGF-9 along with WNT both *should* induce growth in hair. Both of which theories are documented and published by, you guessed it, Dr. George Cotsarelis. Read here:

http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/news/News_Releases/may07/hair-follicle-regeneration.html

Look for this part in that article:

“We showed that wound healing triggered an embryonic state in the skin which made it receptive to receiving instructions from wnt proteins,” says senior author George Cotsarelis, MD, Associate Professor of Dermatology. “The wnts are a network of proteins implicated in hair-follicle development.”

As for FGF-9, here's what he has to say:

In one embodiment, the present invention provides a method for generating an HF in a scalp, eyebrow, or scarred region of a subject, comprising the steps of: (a) disrupting an epidermis of the scalp, eyebrow, or scarred region; and (b) contacting the scalp, eyebrow, or scarred region with minoxidil, thereby generating an HF in a scalp, eyebrow, or scarred region of a subject.

Source: https://www.google.com/patents/US201...ed=0CDUQ6AEwAA

The recent study had these results:



To further give evidence of this theory, heres an article from 1986 mentioning a scalp burn victim with MPB regrowing terminal hair after the burn healed:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1351889/pdf/bmjcred00266-0059b.pdf

We also know that in thinning hair, scalp also thins. However dermarolling alone increases collagen production which thickens up skin. This was mentioned by Spencer on his show not long ago in regards to the dermarolling approach. In my opinion (though this is my only theory) a good environment for hair follicles will also play a role, so essentially a DHT free zone with good skin should provide results. I myself will be trying out EMU oil as its known to improve skin. The addition of dermarolling, minoxidil, and a DHT inhibitor like RU58841 or an oral one like Dutasteride should provide results.

So the dermaroller only costs between $10-$40 and will *at least* help with absorption. This, you are right about. However, there is *no reason* not to replicate this study and see what happens.

PrettyFly83 is already seeing results and has posted a link to the dermarolling thread, I would strongly suggest you read over it and at least give it though:

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=13420

[Notcoolanymore]

Well then I stand corrected. Don't know much about this Dermaroller thing but I highly doubt that rolling a $20 dollar object on your head will be a good treatment for MPB.

When it comes to hair loss products, it is smart to be skeptical. With that being said, the the higher cost of a treatment does not always equate to better odds of effectiveness. If that was true all those expensive laser treatments would be the most effective treatments.

At a $20 price tag, I think the price is right to give it a try.

[Notcoolanymore]

The before and after pics above suck. It is really difficult to tell of a person actually grew more hair if the after pic is showing the person with longer hair.

[hellouser]

The before and after pics above suck. It is really difficult to tell of a person actually grew more hair if the after pic is showing the person with longer hair.

You need to see an optometrist.

[Notcoolanymore]

You need to see an optometrist.

I'll look into it. Come on dude patient 2 had his head buzzed in the first pic and has it grown in on the second pic.

[PatientlyWaiting]

1) You're wrong on every account.
2) Its not about just 'rolling' little needles on your head.
3) Minoxidil absorption has NOTHING to do with it.

The objective and facts are:

Dermarolling is not meant for absorption but for WOUNDING. It is a known FACT that when wounding occurs, WNT and FGF-9 is induced during the healing process. Keep in mind WNT is the same stuff Histogen is using for their method of injections, so this already holds weight. FGF-9 was shown to grow a significant amount of hair on mice but when removed, hair did not grow. A similar pattern occurs during the wounding process in human scalp, however FGF-9 is produced in lower numbers. It is however thought that the addition of Minoxidil AFTER wounding will elevate PGE2 levels which in itself also elevates FGF-9. FGF-9 along with WNT both *should* induce growth in hair. Both of which theories are documented and published by, you guessed it, Dr. George Cotsarelis. Read here:

http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/news/News_Releases/may07/hair-follicle-regeneration.html

Look for this part in that article:



As for FGF-9, here's what he has to say:



Source: https://www.google.com/patents/US201...ed=0CDUQ6AEwAA

The recent study had these results:



To further give evidence of this theory, heres an article from 1986 mentioning a scalp burn victim with MPB regrowing terminal hair after the burn healed:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1351889/pdf/bmjcred00266-0059b.pdf

We also know that in thinning hair, scalp also thins. However dermarolling alone increases collagen production which thickens up skin. This was mentioned by Spencer on his show not long ago in regards to the dermarolling approach. In my opinion (though this is my only theory) a good environment for hair follicles will also play a role, so essentially a DHT free zone with good skin should provide results. I myself will be trying out EMU oil as its known to improve skin. The addition of dermarolling, minoxidil, and a DHT inhibitor like RU58841 or an oral one like Dutasteride should provide results.

So the dermaroller only costs between $10-$40 and will *at least* help with absorption. This, you are right about. However, there is *no reason* not to replicate this study and see what happens.

PrettyFly83 is already seeing results and has posted a link to the dermarolling thread, I would strongly suggest you read over it and at least give it though:

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=13420

Thanks for the info. I have been away from the forums for a while. I will check all of this out more thoroughly. I will even give a try my self, if I see it's worth it.

[hellouser]

I'll look into it. Come on dude patient 2 had his head buzzed in the first pic and has it grown in on the second pic.

His vertex should be much thinner, as its clear he's got thin hair in that area before the trial.

1st patient showes wild results, hard to dispute that unless the results are somehow doctored.

[Notcoolanymore]

His vertex should be much thinner, as its clear he's got thin hair in that are before the trial.

1st patient showes wild results, hard to dispute that unless the results are somehow doctored.

You are right about patient one. His results look pretty good. I am not saying the dermaroller is not effective. I use it. Hopefully I will get good results with it. Have you tried it?

[hellouser]

You are right about patient one. His results look pretty good. I am not saying the dermaroller is not effective. I use it. Hopefully I will get good results with it. Have you tried it?

You need to read my dermarolling thread. There's 30+ pages (and counting) of useful information on dermarolling:

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=13420

Yes, I've been dermarolling. Today was my second session, I made sure to be harsh on my scalp though since last week I didn't see much redness and did not notice much bleeding either (a good indication of actual wounding) though the study showed mild erythema was enough (basically until the scalp was red). You do need to apply minox twice a day though, and wait 24 hours after dermarolling. Applying minoxidil on a bleeding scalp could give a very high heart rate, so its advised you DONT apply it immediately. Healing of the scalp doesnt occur until (i think) days later anyway so immediately applying minoxidil probably wouldn't make a world of a difference anyway.

Read the thread though!

[Axel]

I am not saying the dermaroller is not effective. I use it.

You use it 3-4 times a week and apply minox immediately after rolling... you basically have been over-dosing minox into your bloodtream. That can't be good.

Also, you must use a 1.5mm roller. Read the study, it is quite interesting.

[PatientlyWaiting]

Patient 2 is a bit tricky to analyze though, because the before picture has flash ad the after picture does not. If you take a picture with no flash, your hair will appear thicker than it is, because of the lack of light, it will look dull, therefore darker=thicker. But with that said, it is obvious that the after picture is much better, his hair is in much better shape in the after picture. But then it's also appears to be longer.

[the_dude78]

No, it is everything to do with absorption, micro-needling is said to massively increase absorption of any topical you put on your skin, thats why women are using it along with vitamin creams for good skin.

Your right that it does cause the skin to heal with is supposed to increase collagen levels but for hairloss the main principle is to increase expsoure to minoxil.

I'm no docter and neither are you but I really think once a day might be too much.

I would recomend using it just after the shower, the skin is softer then and it's less painful.

Would you at least check out the thread and the study other users have linked to? In this case it is not about absorption..

[hellouser]

No, it is everything to do with absorption, micro-needling is said to massively increase absorption of any topical you put on your skin, thats why women are using it along with vitamin creams for good skin.

Your right that it does cause the skin to heal with is supposed to increase collagen levels but for hairloss the main principle is to increase expsoure to minoxil.

I'm no docter and neither are you but I really think once a day might be too much.

I would recomend using it just after the shower, the skin is softer then and it's less painful.

Youre completely wrong, and even Dr. Cotsarelis would say so should his findings prove true about wounding/healing with induced WNT and FGF-9. I've explained the proccess in general here:

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showpost.php?p=139745&postcount=16

Also, I've tried dermarolling with a 1.5mm roller AFTER showering thinking that my skin will be softer and will hurt less.... not exactly true, at least for me.