If finasteride doesnt work, does it mean Avodart also wont work??

[secrethero89]

I have been on Proscar/4 everyday for 6 months. I had no results and my hair is much worse than ever. Everybody says that I should stay at least 1 year but it didnt even slow my hair loss, if i saw a little good sign i would stay 1 year.

I am really depressed now i spend 5+ hours a day in hair loss forums. I am thinking MPB beats me..following my dad's pattern ((

I want to try avodart but i think it wont work because they work in the same mechanism. I didnt respond a DHT Inhibitor(finas) so that Avodart is also a DHT Inhibitor. Theoretically it shouldnt work.

Is my assumption right? Or should i start avodart?

[PatientlyWaiting]

Maybe, you will not know unless you try it. I've seen your pictures in another hair loss forum which I post as JimmyNeutron with a 2009 join date/Vegeta avatar, ************, and you have thick hair and unnoticeable hair loss.

[ChrisM]

It is going to take at least over a year to determine whether Finasteride is working to reverse out the male pattern baldness you have inherited through genetics. MPB is a slow, gradual process as is the miniaturization of the hair follicles by DHT, sebum and being choked off as the 5AR enzyme types one and two attach themselves to the receptors of your follicles. Finasteride must be ingested daily to build up the internal chemistry of your body to offset the years of DHT to take down the levels of it and to knock out the 5AR enzyme to begin to let the hair that is dormant and in a rest phase to grow out. Combine that with Biotin at 5000mg and Ketoconazole shampoo( Regenepure or Nizoral) to strip out the DHT caked in the follicles themselves and over time past a year you should see some improvement.

People think it is going to be instantaneous. When it is anything but that unfortunately the extent of the damage differs from person to person. A Norwood 2.5 is going to have different responsiveness than a Norwood 4 - 6 as the damage is more extensive going forward therefore more time for repairs is necessary.

If going past a year and several months if you are not seeing the results at all you might opt for the 5mg Propecia brand or Dutasteride(Avodart) as the stronger alternative.

Jumping off sooner from Finasteride in a way that is either abrupt and quick change and you will lose the hair that you have gained with Finasteride as a form of shedding.

[WarLord]

I have been on Proscar/4 everyday for 6 months. I had no results and my hair is much worse than ever. Everybody says that I should stay at least 1 year but it didnt even slow my hair loss, if i saw a little good sign i would stay 1 year.

I am really depressed now i spend 5+ hours a day in hair loss forums. I am thinking MPB beats me..following my dad's pattern ((

I want to try avodart but i think it wont work because they work in the same mechanism. I didnt respond a DHT Inhibitor(finas) so that Avodart is also a DHT Inhibitor. Theoretically it shouldnt work.

Is my assumption right? Or should i start avodart?

Your reasoning is completely incorrect. Finasteride blocks 70% of blood DHT. But this is only an average. You need to block 75-80% to be at the same level like Dominican pseudoherms, who never go bald. Dutasteride can block as much as 99% blood DHT, according to dosage. A simple math.

[secrethero89]

Your reasoning is completely incorrect. Finasteride blocks 70% of blood DHT. But this is only an average. You need to block 75-80% to be at the same level like Dominican pseudoherms, who never go bald. Dutasteride can block as much as 99% blood DHT, according to dosage. A simple math.

Should i switch to avodart?

[WarLord]

Should i switch to avodart?

If you really have MPB, and if you want to increase your chances close to 100%, then Avodart is the best choice. I don't see any reason, why people should start with finasteride. It is an outdated drug. Remember that mere 3 Avodart pills a week are stronger than whatever dose of finasteride! Yes, on finasteride you have close to 90% probability to keep your hair for years, but one thing that is not emphasized enough is the fact that in young men, this number is rather closer to 80%. And when you are young, your MPB proceeds fast. You don't have enough time to play with finasteride, to end up frustrated after 1 year of endless waiting for any results. You must jump on the most effective drug that is available.

[ChrisM]

Ok.. you went overboard. Propecia is NOT an outdated drug. In terms of effectiveness in reversing MPB finasteride is probably one of the most effective treatments out there for balding men. That said dutasteride and finasteride only differ in the fact that dutasteride blocks a second type 5AR enzyme that fin does not block. Also if someone has side effects like low semen and ejaculation, flaccid penis and difficulty with erections, nut ache etcetera and finasteride is say at a 5 with those side effects. With Dutasteride dial it up to at 8 in terms of those same side effects as it is a powerful drug and therefore the sides also are the same but more pronounced. For either to show pronounced results to completely reverse out baldness you have to be on a linear time frame of over a year on either to see results that are substantial. No one I know of has seen results of Finasteride detailing a complete reverse or substantial regrowth in a 6 month or under that time frame. The required period for either would at least be over a year to see a completed result to see both retention of hair and return of thickness and hair density. Dutasteride is essentially the same in that you need to be on the drug for an extended period of time to see the results. To jump off one drug immediately to latch onto another is also not the wisest choice of action as the person suggesting such does not have live with the consequences of such a quick change. Do your research first and make an educated decision on your own before listening to such advice.

[WarLord]

Ok.. you went overboard. Propecia is NOT an outdated drug. In terms of effectiveness in reversing MPB finasteride is probably one of the most effective treatments out there for balding men. That said dutasteride and finasteride only differ in the fact that dutasteride blocks a second type 5AR enzyme that fin does not block. Also if someone has side effects like low semen and ejaculation, flaccid penis and difficulty with erections, nut ache etcetera and finasteride is say at a 5 with those side effects. With Dutasteride dial it up to at 8 in terms of those same side effects as it is a powerful drug and therefore the sides also are the same but more pronounced. For either to show pronounced results to completely reverse out baldness you have to be on a linear time frame of over a year on either to see results that are substantial. No one I know of has seen results of Finasteride detailing a complete reverse or substantial regrowth in a 6 month or under that time frame. The required period for either would at least be over a year to see a completed result to see both retention of hair and return of thickness and hair density. Dutasteride is essentially the same in that you need to be on the drug for an extended period of time to see the results. To jump off one drug immediately to latch onto another is also not the wisest choice of action as the person suggesting such does not have live with the consequences of such a quick change. Do your research first and make an educated decision on your own before listening to such advice.

Finasteride is "effective" when compared with the state of medications 20 years ago. It is no match for dutasteride. Dutasteride simply works far faster and better. And remember that we shouldn't speak about "switching medications". We should rather speak about the degree of the DHT suppression. Is the suppression from 0% to -70% milder than that from -70% to -90%?

I repeat: There are many whining guys on internet forums, complaining that they patiently waited for 1 year to see, if finasteride has any effect. It had not and they ended up deeply frustrated. Well, it is a medication that is more than sufficient for the average male, but not all males are average. You can play with finasteride, when you are 40 years old and your MPB is slow. But you have too little time, when you are 20.

Furthermore, dutasteride doesn't have more side effects than finasteride. This is again a baseless falacy. Actually, many men report increased libido as the first noticeable "side effect" of dutasteride use (I did as well), which is quite understandable, owing to the increase of testosterone.

[ChrisM]

Scientific fact 1) Finasteride has fewer sexual side effects

http://urologytimes.modernmedicine.com/urology-times/news/clinical/clinical-pharmacology/finasteride-had-fewer-sexual-side-effects-compared

Baseline clinical trials of Finasteride as compared to Dutasteride
Dutasteride although drastically reducing the serum profile of DHT only barely edges out Finasteride though both share the same chemical profile..because as I said earlier Dutasteride attacks the two types of 5AR enzymes that lead to male pattern baldness. Finasteride only attacks one type of enzyme.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1472914/

Shedding and hair loss from switching up from Finasteride to Dutasteride
here...

http://www.baldingblog.com/2013/03/06/i-switched-from-finasteride-to-.dutasteride-and-now-have-shedding-all-over-the-scalp/

here....

http://www.hairadd.com/hair-loss-causes/2223.html

and here...

http://www.****************/interact...!!-Help-Please

and lastly this which does advocate Dutasteride but with increased DHT inhibition comes the possibility of increased sides

http://www.***************/non-surgi...choose-part-2/

So we can see from the scientific trials and the experiences of others noted here it is not so clear cut as some would have you believe in terms switching number one and that one is necessarily the better choice than the other since you need to be one on the other for a year to see if their is any result in it working for you based on the progression and pattern of your current loss. It is not a cakewalk and an easy choice as Warlord would have you believe.

Whether you pick finasteride behind door number one or dutasteride behind door number two you will have to be patient and track your result. A quick switch between one to the other can result in hair loss and shedding that could be reflex androgencity, shock loss or the change in Fin cycling out of your body and now the Avodart taking over. Do not be hasty because some guy on the internet is advising to do you x and then you find your prick doesn't work anymore. You can't blame him you can only blame yourself. Do the research look through Google and search on these subjects and figure things out for yourself. I am going to switch to Dutasteride after a year. Why ? I have seen result with Finasteride reversing out my Norwood 6 to a diffuse Norwood 4.. that is a huge jump and with hair growing on my temples yet. and on my vertex. Thick hairs that are darkening even as we speak.. that was due to patience of a regimen of Nizoral, Minoxidil and Finasteride for nearly a year which a few lapses in terms of delivery without fail. So I know that if my hair works with one it will work with the other. And that sexual side effects with one was nonexistent with me as a primer so now I know that if I choose to advance to Dutasteride I will probably have minimal to zero side effects on that side since the chemical profile is remarkably the same.

For being twenty years old most everyone on this site and more hair loss forums are using Finasteride as the mainstay of what reversed their hair loss it was and still is the closest thing to one of the best thing to combat baldness out there.

[baldozer]

I have been on Proscar/4 everyday for 6 months. I had no results and my hair is much worse than ever. Everybody says that I should stay at least 1 year but it didnt even slow my hair loss, if i saw a little good sign i would stay 1 year.

I am really depressed now i spend 5+ hours a day in hair loss forums. I am thinking MPB beats me..following my dad's pattern ((

I want to try avodart but i think it wont work because they work in the same mechanism. I didnt respond a DHT Inhibitor(finas) so that Avodart is also a DHT Inhibitor. Theoretically it shouldnt work.

Is my assumption right? Or should i start avodart?

You can try castration if nothing else works! I mean seriously, is hair that important that you would take such dangerous drugs as Avodart to save it.

[PatientlyWaiting]

You can try castration if nothing else works! I mean seriously, is hair that important that you would take such dangerous drugs as Avodart to save it.

What is so dangerous about it? It's FDA approved for BPH and in the short clinical trials it was showed to be more effective than finasteride for MBP. I have been using it for nearly 4 weeks[2 days away from completing 4 weeks], I am still alive, my d--k has not fallen off, I do not have ball ache, my libido has not dropped one bit.

Like finasteride, dutasteride's side effects are greatly exaggerated. I feel sorry for those who can not tolerate these drugs, but the "dangers" of these drugs are greatly exaggerated.

[ChrisM]

What is so dangerous about it? It's FDA approved for BPH and in the short clinical trials it was showed to be more effective than finasteride for MBP. I have been using it for nearly 4 weeks[2 days away from completing 4 weeks], I am still alive, my d--k has not fallen off, I do not have ball ache, my libido has not dropped one bit.

Like finasteride, dutasteride's side effects are greatly exaggerated. I feel sorry for those who can not tolerate these drugs, but the "dangers" of these drugs are greatly exaggerated.

Here is your answer to that posted from 2 years ago as per the FDA warnings on both finasteride and dutasteride.

http://newsforumforlawyers.com/2011/06/fda-issues-warning-of-high-grade-prostate-cancer-risk-with-avodart-and-proscar/

[PatientlyWaiting]

I read that when it came out.

[WarLord]

Scientific fact 1) Finasteride has fewer sexual side effects

http://urologytimes.modernmedicine.com/urology-times/news/clinical/clinical-pharmacology/finasteride-had-fewer-sexual-side-effects-compared

Baseline clinical trials of Finasteride as compared to Dutasteride
Dutasteride although drastically reducing the serum profile of DHT only barely edges out Finasteride though both share the same chemical profile..because as I said earlier Dutasteride attacks the two types of 5AR enzymes that lead to male pattern baldness. Finasteride only attacks one type of enzyme.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1472914/

Shedding and hair loss from switching up from Finasteride to Dutasteride
here...

http://www.baldingblog.com/2013/03/06/i-switched-from-finasteride-to-.dutasteride-and-now-have-shedding-all-over-the-scalp/

here....

http://www.hairadd.com/hair-loss-causes/2223.html

and here...

http://www.****************/interact...!!-Help-Please

and lastly this which does advocate Dutasteride but with increased DHT inhibition comes the possibility of increased sides

http://www.***************/non-surgi...choose-part-2/

So we can see from the scientific trials and the experiences of others noted here it is not so clear cut as some would have you believe in terms switching number one and that one is necessarily the better choice than the other since you need to be one on the other for a year to see if their is any result in it working for you based on the progression and pattern of your current loss. It is not a cakewalk and an easy choice as Warlord would have you believe.

Whether you pick finasteride behind door number one or dutasteride behind door number two you will have to be patient and track your result. A quick switch between one to the other can result in hair loss and shedding that could be reflex androgencity, shock loss or the change in Fin cycling out of your body and now the Avodart taking over. Do not be hasty because some guy on the internet is advising to do you x and then you find your prick doesn't work anymore. You can't blame him you can only blame yourself. Do the research look through Google and search on these subjects and figure things out for yourself. I am going to switch to Dutasteride after a year. Why ? I have seen result with Finasteride reversing out my Norwood 6 to a diffuse Norwood 4.. that is a huge jump and with hair growing on my temples yet. and on my vertex. Thick hairs that are darkening even as we speak.. that was due to patience of a regimen of Nizoral, Minoxidil and Finasteride for nearly a year which a few lapses in terms of delivery without fail. So I know that if my hair works with one it will work with the other. And that sexual side effects with one was nonexistent with me as a primer so now I know that if I choose to advance to Dutasteride I will probably have minimal to zero side effects on that side since the chemical profile is remarkably the same.

For being twenty years old most everyone on this site and more hair loss forums are using Finasteride as the mainstay of what reversed their hair loss it was and still is the closest thing to one of the best thing to combat baldness out there.

Well, I confess that a working prick is the most important thing in the world. And "side effects" like "ejaculatory dysfunction and decreased libido" are scary. Especially when they occur in as much as 2-3% men. And don't forget that the huge 1% difference between dut and fin is important. Some other studies didn't document this difference, which means that they should be thrown into a scrap basket.



Gosh! The obsessive idiots study only sexual side effects, because of some hysterical, primitive dudes, for which sex is the only life's hobby. I got an outburst of acne on my back after the start of dutasteride, but where is this visible and verifable side effect listed in their studies? Nobody of them cares. Ejaculation dysfunction is obviously much more important.

[WarLord]

What is so dangerous about it? It's FDA approved for BPH and in the short clinical trials it was showed to be more effective than finasteride for MBP. I have been using it for nearly 4 weeks[2 days away from completing 4 weeks], I am still alive, my d--k has not fallen off, I do not have ball ache, my libido has not dropped one bit.

Like finasteride, dutasteride's side effects are greatly exaggerated. I feel sorry for those who can not tolerate these drugs, but the "dangers" of these drugs are greatly exaggerated.

Dutasteride is actually very dangerous. The great hormone called DHT is just so important! Imagine that you will be one of those few men, who will never experience the joy of baldness and prostate enlargement! Not to speak about prostate cancer! You will virtually discredit yourself in the society.