Scar Grafting with Dr Cole

[northeastguy]

Jet... do you have the ability to post a few photos of your scar? wet your hair first as it will make the scar easier to see. if someone can snap it while you hold up the hair all the better. you can even use tape to hold it up.

[gillenator]

jetfan,

Like I said my posts "speak for themselves" and that's the proof of what I do here along with my documentation to prove I do not benefit financially. At least I can prove what I do and how I do it. And you think I am angry? Give me a break!

You could not put up even one thread or post where I am promoting strip surgery or promoting my endorsing docs because like I stated , "they don't exist". So rather than run with your baseless accusations, let's see just one. You can't and you know it. Yet you conveniently play up to where you think you will be getting your next procedure. How accommodating of you.

Why not just come here and hang out? No you won't because you refuse to believe that anyone would actually have the right motives and reasons for being here. And who is being the deceitful one? PLEASE!!!!

Of course I need some level of support because I have bills associated with this. But at least I am not here to get rich or financially benefit off of anybody. Like I said, I could have many years ago started my own community and built it up making a financial empire. Or I could choose to work directly for a clinic on commissions and still make a lot of money. Yet the reason I only charge $1100 total is because it just pays the bills of my office. And I can prove that I don't pay myself any salary. But you won't come to see will you?! No, you would rather try and slam good ethical people and doctors to earn some free or discounted surgery right? Do you think we are stupid here? It's an old game you are playing.

But that's okay because I know what I do and yes it is by my choice to remain independent so that I am not "controlled" by a paycheck.

You remind me of a guy who no longer posts in the forums who also insisted the same thing things playing judge and jury. And as soon as he got his free surgery, he disappeared. And yet you would rather swing your baseless axe, why, to try and show you are some kind of forum warrior? Get a life. People like you just cannot admit when they are wrong or like I said, there is some other motive behind it...

And although your types surface every now and then, I really don't care because like I said, I never recruit people for strip or FUE. And you can't even take someone else's own words of gratitude but insist they are being deceived. That's pretty low.

Both techniques have their advantages, both have their disadvantages, period. You just have not seen enough good FUHT work, nor will you ever take any other FUHT patient's satisfaction for what they state. So you are going to just discount all of the other happy strip patients for the sake of tooting your horn and not admit there are plenty of bad FUE procedures being done.

You base your viewpoints on your own personal experience whether it was ignorance or physiology. And I did state the latter to be the reason too in some cases. That was not being cruel as you judge because some guys who get whacked do admit they rushed into it and blindly chose the doctor who swayed them.

Those are their own words and take a lot of courage for someone to admit when they are wrong, something you seem allergic to.

[gillenator]

Don't think for one nanosecond that I don't know that you are being put up to what you are doing and who is really behind it!

[jetfan11]

You

Nobody's put me up to anything I've Always felt this way about your posts. Instead of. Being upset or Angry or wielding some conspiracy theory just realize deep down you know I'm right and thats why you are upset.

It's hypocritical to promote these surgeries on 1 side of the forum and console patients on the other. That's all my friend and my point is plain as day.

Again instead of getting defensive see my point.

I have no clue what. You are talking about with free surgeries I make a ton of money and is the least of my concerns.

I don't think you are a bad person that's not my hunch at all.

[jetfan11]

One last thing

One last thing. I'm not promoting fue or strip. I think both are an unnecessary risky endeavor!

I'm talking about you. You personally and the hypocrisy of promoting a surgery that most likely ends badly and then supporting the victims of that same surgery.

I dont have a problem with the sales people on here selling strip hell about half. People will probably end up thrilled. At least they are honest.

Try this if I promote smoking cigarettes citing that not everyone gets sick and dies of cancer and then try to console the people with lung cancer that's being a hypocrite.

Let's stop going back and forth it's silly.

Give me your phone number or email and when possible I will come see you and say all this to your face.

Cool?

[gillenator]

jetfan,

Look, I hate these conflicts just as much as you. Yet when I am accused of something that I know is not true, it gets very old. If you were accused of being a terrorist and you know that you are not, would you keep your mouth shut? I doubt it. If you were wrongly charged with a crime that you were innocent of, would you hire an attorney and fight the charge or would you lay down? My reputation means everything to me and not just in the world of surgical hair restoration.

I don't smoke anymore and the lung cancer was something that I brought upon myself and I take full responsibility for it. I don't blame anyone including God. It was my own will to refuse the good advice of my doctors and my loved ones. I knew better but I still put those awful cigarettes in my mouth. And you have to be told that you are going to die from it to appreciate the value of life itself. I help people dying of cancer because I know what it is like to be dying. That's it. I am called to it.

But what I don't get is why you think I am promoting strip. Why can't you just put up any post where you state that I am? It's not true on any forum. In addition, most of the posts that I contribute are to guys that already had their procedure. Or I am always warning people of the risks of HT surgery, especially the young guys who are ready to dive into it. None of my posts have ever promoted any part of the industry. I did not give myself the handle "Gillenator". Another doctor did because of my reputation to go after crooked docs and expose the unethical practices of the industry, especially the large hair mills who were and still are ruining many lives. He said I was a terminator but used my name in the title. That's the truth.

Look, it was not even my initial idea to be an independent advocate. It was another HT doctor, Paul Rose who told me to do it because after quitting my last position working for a HT doctor clinic. He said he would sponsor me so that I would be available to help patients, especially those in need of repair. When I quit my last position in early 2004, I told Dr. Rose that I would never again work or be employed by any HT doctor or clinic. Actually we both quit along with another doctor who now practices in Belgium and does very good work. He was a tech at the time in the US and went to work for Dr. Rose in Florida. We all quit at the same time for which I believe were for the same reasons.

Look, if I could afford the expenses myself, I would do it, in a heartbeat. But most of the guys are broke after spending their entire bank on the procedure they are trying to get fixed.

My background is in small business management and consulting and that was what I decide to do. Actually I do not spend the majority of my time as an advocate. Yet I kept getting emails and phone calls from guys that were disfigured from HT surgery or wanted their plugs and/or scars corrected.

When FUE was first being practiced and even up until this day, I still see both bad surgeries from "both FUHT and FUE". You just have not seen enough bad FUE cases and pics or seen bad FUE in person like I have.

Yet I am not against FUE as long as it is done with competence and integrity. I am not against strip because there are many guys who have had great success with it including me. We did our homework and chose the right talented doctors. You have to let people decide what is best for their own situations, not our opinions. My point is it has to be an informed decision. My God, I tell guys all of the time that if they choose FUHT, there is always a chance they could end up with a bad strip scar and there is an extremely high chance they will never be able to buzz their scalp or even wear a short hair style. That's what my posts state over ten years time. They have never changed because my values never change.

When you come, I will show you my thin strip scar and you will have a hard time finding it. The guys who do have physiological issues are indeed FUE candidates or if they want to wear a very short hair style. That's what my posts state.

So is it any wonder why I am so very highly suspicious of why you attack me? And you would feel any different?

Here's my number (703) 250- 1311. Call me anytime. I do a schedule C on my taxes. I am totally transparent.

One last thing that affirmed my decision to be an independent advocate. There was a guy named Joe from the Boston area that got whacked really bad from one of the hair mills. He was ready to commit suicide over it. I stayed up until 3 am consoling him. My wife will attest to this unless you think she is a liar. I helped him get 3 corrective procedures from a very honest talented strip doctor in MPLS. FUE was not available back then and not even known. He got all three corrective procedures for free and the doctor even paid for his airline tickets all three trips and even paid for his hotel and food.

We did not have to help this guy. It would have been easy for most people to turn a deaf ear to him. Most of the so-called best docs turned him away because Joe was broke. Somebody had to help him.

Believe it or not, there are still a few good men in this world that will try and help someone else who is suffering. I don't know of anyone else that extends themselves in that way in this industry. And I am not trying to toot my horn either. But my God someone has to be willing to help another human being and not expect anything is return for it.

If we all took on those values and practiced them, this world might just be a better place.

I still wish you the very best in your upcoming procedure. I truly hope you experience the same type of success that NEGuy has.

And look, this thread is supposed to be about his case, and the hope that it can bring to many guys like yourself.

This type of dialogue is not helping those who want to throw up reading it.

Peace to you my friend....

[John P. Cole, MD]

Gillenator had several strip surgeries that he is quite pleased with. I've known him since well before FUE was available outside of Australia. At that time, all we had was strip surgery so it's no wonder that the Gillenator had strip procedures. He happens to have a very good result. He is a good friend of mine, as well.

Jetfan echoes the problem many strip patients have however. One can easily sympathize with his perspective because he lives with a bad strip scar result. One can understand his anger toward anyone associated with strip surgery.

Gillenator is correct that there are many very bad FUE results today simply because physicians are not bothering to get training on how to perform FUE well. Many FUE surgeons just by a Robot or hire a tech with no formal medical training to do their FUE work. In that these physicians have no FUE experience, such physicians will make all the mistakes that have already been made. Those who really understand FUE have made those mistakes over a decade back and they have discovered ways to avoid them. When the physician does not do the surgery, the physician will never understand what is causing the mistakes and they have not sought training on how to avoid such mistakes. They are not even aware of all the mistakes they are making. In short, not all FUE is the same.

Not all strips were the same either. I had a predominance of fine strip scars. Still on occasion, I had a strip scar that was 5 mm wide and there was no way to prevent it. Other physicians get strip scars over 1 cm wide and I have idea how they cause such hideous results.

While Gillenator has tremendous strip experience and a fine strip result, I think he is very much like I was way back in 2002 when I did not recognize all the values of FUE that make FUE hands down a better surgery than strip surgery. I don't fault him for that. I also recognize that he is not alone as most strip advocates in general dismiss the advantages of FUE or they do not recognize them.

When you are happy with a result like Gillenator is, it is easy to understand how he can promote his results and the procedures that created them.

Still, I stand strongly against strip surgery. I find no rational reason to ever have one. Physicians today offer FUE only because patients are demanding FUE. Physicians are not taking the time to learn FUE. Physicians are not making the time to learn how to properly perform good FUE. They just want the money.

If you venture back to look at what I said over 10 years ago about physician acceptance of FUE, you will see that what I said was dead on accurate. At that time 10 years ago only 4 physicians in North America were interested in FUE; only one physician was doing FUE in Europe. One physician was doing FUE in Australia. Two US physicians who improperly named the procedure FUE were very much against FUE. I stated at that time that FUE offered tremendous advantages over strip surgery. I further stated that physicians would in general refuse to recognize these advantages. Rather, it would take patient demand for FUE to inspire physicians to learn FUE. That is exactly what happened. Patients began to refuse to have physicians perform a strip so the physicians finally decided to offer FUE one way or the other.

What I failed to expect was that physicians would be so greedy to make money that they would hire unlicensed individuals with no medical training to perform FUE rather than make the time to learn FUE from an experienced physician. I did not expect a robotics company to manufacture a robot without making the time to learn about FUE from those who had the most FUE experience. I did not assume that physicians would be so focused on making money that they would take all the wrong short cuts. I guess I just forgot about why we have so many bad hair transplant results in general. Physicians want money more than they want to provide quality results.

Still there is very good FUE out there today. One can avoid strip surgery altogether. One can avoid bad FUE physicians and they can avoid bad strip physicians. With good FUE, one can avoid all the bad complications of bad FUE. With good strip surgery, one can't avoid the complications of strip surgery. One can avoid these strip problems by avoiding strip surgery altogether. The winner hands down is FUE.

No matter what I say, there will always be some who feel strips are superior. There will always be some who refuse to recognize the problems strips cause. Most hair transplant physicians in general fall into these categories. As such, I don't think anyone can blame someone who is happy with his strip results when he promotes strip surgery. He is in the majority rather than the minority.

Patients will over time continue to force more and more physicians to accept FUE. What is unclear is whether physicians will at some point have enough pride in their work to get the proper training to do FUE well.

[jetfan11]

Promoting then consoling

Geez. I wish I never said anything this whole thing is counter productive at this point.

To put a point on this thing my post to you Gillienator had nothing to do with strip vs fue or even good HT results versus bad ones. Its a risky endeavor regardless of how great the doctor is and thats not debatable.

My point was that I find it hypocritical of you to promote strip surgeries on this site and then turn around and console the victims of the very surgery you advocate thats all.

You still dont seem to understand that. Heres another analogy if you deal drugs to kids all day then turn around and help people in recovery youre a hypocrite. Its a simple point.

So to your point how you stayed up till 3am convincing someone not to kill themselves because of their butchered transplant does not absolve you from promoting it when you were a strip salesman or an independent advocate. Nor does it tarnish the effort you made to help someone.

Im sure you are an honest guy who believes he has done no harm. I really do.

My whole point was the hypocrisy of your actions.

Please just leave it at that. Its clear you dont think you promote strip surgeries even after 9 years as a strip salesman and how many years being pro transplant on this site. So lets just leave it alone.

In the end my issue is my fault and my responsibility and ironically I have a lot of hair albeit it not perfect. We all make mistakes we fix them the best we can and move on.

[northeastguy]

Been away from this post for a while.... did I miss anything?

Anyway, I am Sorry for not getting these photos up soon enough. I was having issues with ingrown hairs and pimples. Still a little there but almost gone. I didn't want to display anything sooner due to concerns some would associate that with scaring. Its not. What I've learned is my skin is super sensitive and healed at a slower rate than I expected. Next pass I'll approach the post days much different. I see no signs of scarring via white dots or pitting what so ever. 981 grafts. Fingers are crossed they all grow.

Here we are...

first photo is of course day of procedure. next three are 45 days post procedure pre and post shave.

[gillenator]

Awesome NE, very good extraction sites and bet they healed really well.

Can hardly wait for the regrowth pics as this could be it, meaning, achieving your goal...

[gillenator]

Dr. Cole,

Very well stated. I do think surgical hair restoration will eventually evolve to the isolated extraction techniques but as you already know, it's slow coming. I remember when we used to work together and you showed me one of the first FUE results that some other doctor did. It was horrifying and both of us were shocked at the result. Yet FUE was in it's infancy then but had a huge impact on the viability of the methodology. Then I believed you traveled overseas and witnessed some very good FUE work which I believed had a huge bearing on your outlook of FUE. From my observation, you were clearly inspired.

And yes I am very happy with my strip results hands down. I am from an era where the buzzed short hairstyle was not popular like it is today. I still wear my hair length at 3 inches or so and maybe more like 4 inches on top. I never intend to wear it any shorter. And I continue to hear from guys who like me, are very happy with their strip procedure.

One of the things you pointed out was that there are still bad FUE results and I see them all of the time. And it is because surgeons are still learning the technique, and as you know, does not develop overnight. If you would be so kind to reply to a dilemma that I see from time to time. Every now and then someone that had bad FUE emails his pics and his donor zone is so chewed up from large punches, sloppy extraction methods, etc, etc. Some of them have so much collateral damage from bad FUE that the surrounding neighboring FUs appear damaged to the point that they may not be harvested for future coverage. It is obvious that it is related to a lack of competency and skill.

I realize that strip excisions can do collateral damage as well but I think the point that you are making is physician competence and ethics in not perfecting their techniques. I have for some time known you to be a 100% advocate of FUE over strip and when someone like yourself has demonstrated his FUE method and superb skills, it's no wonder to me why you are of this opinion.

But here's the deal as well. I have also seen more than several guys who went to a good established FUE doc and still their occipital zone looked horrible. Was it physiological? I really don't know but I do know that the surgeon does consistently good FUE work with many examples. An example: there is a doctor in India, not Poswal, who opened his own clinic. I will call him Dr. B so as to not invoke any controversy. He only does FUE, no strip and he never learned strip to my knowledge.

A good friend of mine here in DC recently got a 2800 graft FUE from him. Actually he works for my wife. He came to my office and the work is clean and he healed very well. This was in January and he is just now beginning to show some mild regrowth. I saw the work in person which is far better as you know that photos.

At roughly the same time, I received a PM and multiple emails from another patient of his who is also of Indian descent and lives in the country. His results are worlds apart from my friend here. And he is slamming the same doc. His donor region looks very red, swollen, and the extraction sites are raised and puffy in appearance. He cannot figure out why and neither can I.

He swears that he made a huge mistake having the procedure. My friend is singing about his procedure.

My opinions regarding either method are based on results. What I don't know know is how can two different individuals of the same ethnic background go to the same doc and come out with opposite results? I really cannot think of anything other than the physiological factor. And I am not a physician like you so could it be a compromised auto-immune system, meds, who knows. The same thing happens with strip only surgeons. The same doc can have a horrible outcome and who knows why. It does not matter if they are in the US or have an outstanding reputation in Canada. It happens. Yet some strip clinics have an overwhelming percent of happy FUHT patients, something that you or I cannot deny.

I always and I mean always tell guys both publicly and privately that whether they have FUHT or FUE, they may never be able to wear a short hair style. There are no guarantees of the outcome. Do the research on both methods to fully understand the risks associated with both. And if the individual does want to wear a short or buzzed look, then FUE is the answer hands down. I also state this on the forums.

But I am careful to respect the patient's goals and not impose my own. Just because I am happy with my strip results including the one you did on me, does not mean others will be happy with it. Obviously the ones who had bad strip scars will think strip is a crime. And I clearly disagree.

But only at the present time. When or if good competent FUE becomes firsthand in this field, then I will be convinced that it is the way to go and no other. But overall I still see far better FUHT results than FUE, especially in overall yields. Let me say this. FUE in the right hands is the best way to go for anyone as long as they do not have other issues. But who can always know that 100% percent of the time??

The truth of the matter is that I tell mature guys all of the time that HT surgery should be a last resort "if they must have hair". So to me, it's not even so much an issue of whether having FUHT or FUE, it's more of an issue of do you understand what can go wrong and are you willing to take on that risk? They must understand and accept the fact that scarring can occur and they may never be able to wear a short hair style in their lifetimes regardless of the method.

Lastly, keep up the good work my good friend and I sincerely thank you for your continued passion and desire to make this field a better one.

You always were a decade ahead of the times..

[gillenator]

jetfan,

The more that I read your posts the more I understand your hostile psyche. You are not the first FUHT patient that is unhappy with their result that comes on these forums and attempts to criminalize strip or anyone "you think" promotes it.

Yet you selectively target me when there are others who are in fact employed by 100% FUHT clinics but you don't attack them. And before you again start with your hypocritical rants, come to my office so you can see for yourself. But you won't. You just need someone to take your anger out on. I've seen it a hundred times and more. Go ahead if it makes you feel better.

As I said, I hope everything works out for you so that you can move on with your life...

[wylie]

One last thing that affirmed my decision to be an independent advocate. There was a guy named Joe from the Boston area that got whacked really bad from one of the hair mills. He was ready to commit suicide over it. I stayed up until 3 am consoling him. My wife will attest to this unless you think she is a liar. I helped him get 3 corrective procedures from a very honest talented strip doctor in MPLS. FUE was not available back then and not even known. He got all three corrective procedures for free and the doctor even paid for his airline tickets all three trips and even paid for his hotel and food.

We did not have to help this guy. It would have been easy for most people to turn a deaf ear to him. Most of the so-called best docs turned him away because Joe was broke. Somebody had to help him.

That's really nice to hear. I commend you and the doctor for taking a personal interest in helping this victim of an unscrupulous industry that, more often than not, puts profits before patients.

[jetfan11]

jetfan,

The more that I read your posts the more I understand your hostile psyche. You are not the first FUHT patient that is unhappy with their result that comes on these forums and attempts to criminalize strip or anyone "you think" promotes it.

Yet you selectively target me when there are others who are in fact employed by 100% FUHT clinics but you don't attack them. And before you again start with your hypocritical rants, come to my office so you can see for yourself. But you won't. You just need someone to take your anger out on. I've seen it a hundred times and more. Go ahead if it makes you feel better.

As I said, I hope everything works out for you so that you can move on with your life...

I am not hostile. And these are not rants. Your responses seem irrational and from the psyche of someone that has devoted much of his life to something that has brought a great deal of misery to many people and has since justified this beyond recognition. Moreover you are not answering any of my questions or even reading my responses.

I am not attacking the people who promote strip because they do just that. At least its an honest non hypocritical stance. They are here to promote the services of their clinics. I am not deeming anyone evil or bad that promotes transplants. I have never said that. A good transplant can be an amazing life changing experience and if you do FUE you can probably still go back to bald if it doesnt take which is why its gaining popularity and will probably take over.

I have an issue with YOU promoting surgeries you know have a very high probability in failure and then consoling the victims from some high moral ground. Its the essence of being hypocritical. This is my point to you. In fact its the only point I am making.

You actually proved my points in your last post. Its almost laughable. You say youve seen angry disfigured guys "a 100 times and more". I dont doubt it!!! Being in the business of promoting strip surgeries for 9 years (I think you said 9) and advocating them here I bet its in the 10s of thousands! You also proved my point with the 2 patients who had a 2 surgeries from the same doc and 1 turned out great the other not so much. Whoa so you are saying HT strips are risky and may not work regardless of how good the doc is? Interesting point for sure. Maybe it makes more sense to get FUE so you dont have irrepairable scarring...maybe....

As for coming to your office please give me a small break. I work 80 hours a week and cover 4 states for my job i am not flying out to see some random guy on the internet who thinks its ok to promote strips and then console the victims and paint himself on some high moral ground. Have much better things to do with my time. Id be happy to talk on the phone or you can come out and see me.

Your responses are very long drawn out and filled with anger. Much of that anger and hostility comes from the fact that you have devoted much of your life to something that is very risky, often has failed outcomes and youve been called out on it and deep down you see the hypocrisy of advocating something dangerous for 20 some years and then consoling the victims of the very procedure you advocate.

Lets please take this offline its a great thread NEguy is on his way and its very helpful. We could go back and forth for days and you are now just making stuff up like I am angry or I hate the whole HT industry neither of which is true. Its very immature of you to do that. You can email me at jetfan11@hotmail.com if you want.

[gillenator]

Look jetfan, you initiated the attack. I responded to you and you keep feeding it. That's on you. Think whatever you want. I know who I am and why I do what I do. If you think it's hypocritical, then think that. That's your prerogative.

But like I said, I understand your psyche, I have seen it many times before and that's my view of you whether you agree with it or not.

Peace...