Scar Grafting with Dr Cole

[topcat]

You have plenty of beard donor that is for sure...............has to give you some confidence that it is all just a matter of time.

[Stevie R]

I think it looks great, I am happy for ya...but when you say "Stevie, Its interesting you say that because when we hit the scars with the 0 guard, the upper scar was almost difficult to see" do you mean that you think you might be able to get that upper scar to a 0 now? I know you don't care much but after seeing this Mwamba case http://www.**********************.co...rafting-2.html and as you know a few others...I can then see no reason you can not achieve similar results at the same length...It is great to see that there is no scarring, I can only imagine how far the scars will come in a years time...I can't wait to see it. Being just 2 months after my second pass and the redness having died down a great deal already, and seeing the scar gives me great hope as it is very very small now and no hairs have even grown...likewise your scar had come along way and it seemed to me that the upper scar on the right was near invisibility already...I am just wondering what your thinking because you sound much more confident than before of it getting there, even at the 0 guard.

[northeastguy]

I agree topcat.... once we pass the 3 month mark and I see the benefits using beard hair has, and of course high yields, I'll feel pretty good.

Stevie, Key work in that sentence is "almost". I just don't feel anyone can go to a 0 guard and not think it won't show. I'm not saying someone shouldn't make it their goal... It just might be a tough one to achieve. Every individual I've seen who has long strip scars no matter what they do, I can detect the scar. My goal is to go as short as I can and not have any signs of scaring... 2 guard? I'll be there in 4-5 months I feel. 6 most definitely. for me going from a 6 guard to a 2 guard is a victory. I want to be as short as I can, have someone standing or sitting behind me and know they can't see a thing. Even someone who has had a transplant.
That being said, my goal is to get to a 1-1 1/2 guard. I loved the look. But it will take more work. I have a scar that is slightly raised.... one reason a 0 guard is out of the question. It is also slightly pink and always has been. Both these issue I will attempt to address using the Palomar non ablative laser. it is the only laser I have research that will address hypertrophic red scars in addition to being safe on hairborn tissue.
There are so many factors that play a role in the ability to get to a 0 guard with a scar. scar condition, texture, and color. High yields of FUE, Hair direction above and below the scar. My hair direction underneath my lower scar is horrible by the way. Basically what I am saying is even if we continue to pack in the scars ( and we will ), address the scars texture, I am going to be limited to a certain hair length. That's a simple fact. What that length will be is an unknown right now... and I'm ok with that.

first things first.... heal and grow.

[Stevie R]

Oh okay, I mean I see your point but when I look at the Mwamba case and Daveones case I see them getting down to 0 guards just fine, after just 1 or 2 passes...I understand what you are saying and if you think you can't get there I won't argue, maybe you can't...though, I still think it may be closer than you think, the good thing is that you want only a 1-1 1/2...I myself think that if the hair direction is right, the color is close, and not too many hairs needed it can be done...I will continue to pack it and do what I can to get that 0 guard....until I have exhausted all measures, even though I probably won't ever go that low. I just wasn't sure what you were trying to convey on that previous post, either way I wish you the best and am sure you will be really happy in a years time, take care northeastguy.

[35YrsAfter]

That's a simple fact. What that length will be is an unknown right now... and I'm ok with that.

first things first.... heal and grow.

The toughest part of the whole process for many, is waiting for the hair to grow. In some cases beard hair takes a little longer than scalp hair. The one reliable constant I have repeatedly seen is; repair patients improve with every pass. Dr. Cole really nailed the scars this time.

Chuck
Dr. Cole's office

[Stevie R]

Stevie R, with all due respect it is very hard to judge the Dr. mwamba's results as the angle of the donor is not the same in the after shoot as the before, in the before the head is straight and in the after it is pulled up. also the before photo is blurry and the after photo is darker, where is the close up photo?
A proper before and after is important if you want to evaluate the results.
I attached a good example of before and after photos showing scar grafting by Dr. Cole:

First off I am not promoting Dr. Mwamba, Umar, De Reys, or anyone else, but I know each one of them have fixed cases at a 0 guard or a 0.5 guard, that particular case I feel shows enough and I am sure Dr Cole could have gotten a similar result. I am not sure what your getting at by showing me that pic...I think it is great and further proves my point...because that was just one pass by Cole and it is a 1 guard...Idk what it will look like at a 0 guard, perhaps the patient is like Northeastguy an wants only a 1 guard cut, IDK, but I bet he can probably get it to a 0.5 guard as I see no trace of it at a 1 guard like I said, and after another pass I would bet he could get to a 0 guard...but surely it is not guaranteed, I never said that anyone is guaranteed to get so low, I just don't see the reason why some are so ready to shoot down the fixes at a 0 guard being not proof enough when their are 4 or 5 cases of guys being fixed at a 0guard and many after just one pass getting to a 1 or 1 1/2 guard with no problems, and not just by doctors themselves. So, it seems logical to me that these scars with time, multiple FUE passes into the scar, and perhaps recell or the palomar laser can allow people to get their scars fixed at a 0 guard, at least the guys who have a similar scar to skin tone, hairs are going the right way, and have a fairly thin scar, as long as they go to one of the top FUE guys out their, like Cole, Feriduni, Bisanga, De Reys and so on. Also, I felt that the Mwamba case was a very clear photo, and the resolution very good, I suppose the head is tilted slightly more....but I don't think that really matters when the resolution is so good, we should still see something if it was indeed not fixed.

I hope you are not trying to bash Mwamba's clinic on here as I feel he has a lot to offer to people in his area (Europe I mean) and some may not want to travel all the way to Georgia, spending a lot of money on a plane ticket in the process. Also, I think you might gve people pause to visit Dr Cole that live near by in using such tactics. It seems to me that the work of Mwamba, Cole, Feriduni and Dr De Reys amongst others are all very similar and that individuals should decide based on closeness and comfort ability with their certain guy. I think the case you showed and Northeastguy are both great cases but you force me to point out that the case you displayed, ironically, did not show the length of the hair at a 1 guard before and after, it showed a 0 guard before, and a 1 guard after, the Mwamba case showed a 0 guard before and a 0 guard after...so in short, I wouldn't go throwing stones....Also, their are plenty of other cases out on the internet, including a case from Dr True (I am not promoting True in any way, I know little of him) that shows a patient in many more angles, sides, before and after that show that the patient was able to get to a 1 or 1 1/2 guard, after just one pass, and many agree in his case, as a case of Dr Feriduni has on the internet that another pass would fix either.


Also, in my own experience with my scar after doing just one pass ( I am 2 months into my second pass so no growth yet, this is why I say I have only had one pass as I only see those results) that the scar in areas was invisible, before the redness accompanied by the second pass. Why should I not believe after a second pass that I will be able to get to a 0 guard after my own experience from the two passes and results of the first pass as well as my deep research into the experience of others who have similar scars, with similar hair colors, similar texture to their scars and so on? If you want me to be frank, I believe that many who are not likely to reverse their scars to a 0 guard due to horrible scars or personal doubts will not let themselves believe (even when the evidence proves the contrary) that these HT scars can't be fixed at a zero, in order to not get too down when they likely don't get back to a 0 guard. But like I said, if not too bad, and if all is in their favor as I have mentioned above such as color, size, texture and so on, then these scars can indeed be fixed...in my opinion and from my experience.

[Stevie R]

You said "First off I am not promoting" but it seems you take it very personally with this long reply. well, i know and worked with Dr. Mwamba and i actually like him very much as a person.
Getting a scar grafted and camouflaged to 0 guard is something that is very hard to achieve, scars tend to have a different pinkish color because of the scar tissue, hair direction is also a problem on scar tissue and hair doesn't always grow well on scars. so to talk like it can work on any patient is not true. scars are unpredictable, some patient have great results and some less.
i am not trying to take anything from this results of dr. mwamba, but i think that it is not right to claim that the patient is on 0 guard after scar grafting while not showing photos with the same angle, same light and close up...the pictures are not good and blurry. Of course it is good work there, but for this claim - "0 guard" you need good pictures, that's all.

If I take it personal (which I don't) it is because I know many that don't even want to go through the repair process unless they can get a 0 guard, and many skeptics knock down clear success stories. That Mwamba case was only 1 pass by Mwamba, even if it wasn't fixed at a 0 guard, another pass would surely improve it further, and once again the pics you showed did not present that much better pictures at all, in fact I might argue that Mwamaba's pics are better, though it is close as he showed the grafting of the scar and so on, and a 0 guard in both before and after shots. I never said a 0 guard can work on any patient, I am merely trying to announce to the repair cases around the globe, that if your scar is not too bad, and in some cases, even if it is, there is hope for a 0 guard, and better hope the better your scar is as much evidence has shown, from Daveone, to the Mwamba case, to many others, as well as my own personal experience. You would have known that I never said that anyone can achieve a 0 guard if you would have read my prior posts I make it very clear. I am not going to keep going in circles here on this forum, I am merely trying to convey to the many who look on these forums and don't respond that there is hope for a 0 guard...it is never personal for me on this forum.

[northeastguy]

Guys do me a favor, please don't turn this thread into a verbal sh$t storm. I started this thread to share my repair journey and help those along the way that are looking to address the same issues.

[gillenator]

A couple of comments. Scars and the results in repairing them can and do vary quite a bit between patients, something that I have observed for many years. Many of the guys that I do hear from are complex repair cases involving either strip scars and/or past open donor procedures (plugs).

For example, how individuals respond to future corrective procedures do vary in how the patient responds in the healing process. Regrowth through scar tissue varies primarily because of the variance in the composite of the scar tissue itself. Varying degrees in collagen levels can impact the coloration of the tissue even after complete healing has taken place, and sometimes it can seem to linger forever and ever, etc., etc.

In addition, beard hair and other types of BH also have variances in their growth cycles so patience between corrective procedures is important.

My observation is that northeastguy for example has and continues to respond very favorably in both healing and regrowth in his past strip scars.

And I cannot commend him enough for his transparency and courage in sharing his journey with us. Especially to those other patients who are in need of repair and are quietly following these repair threads yet never post.

One last issue, and I am clearly not seeking a debate on the subject. I have in the past and continue to inform anyone considering a HT procedure whether it's their first or subsequent procedure, that there is a chance great or small, that they may never be able to "shave down" their scalps or even "buzz down" that low to a number 1 guide without some visual effects of HT surgery showing.

Some heal very well, go to a competent talented surgeon, and come out just great. Others can go to the same surgeon and may not have the best physiological make-up, and do not respond as favorably. Sometimes they may have other health issues that can compromise the final result. Sometimes they have been taking medications for years and must stay on them, like diabetics need to. Or they have P.A.D. and need to be on Plavix for the rest of their lives. I am one of those individuals and living with eight double stents in my body from four separate past angioplasty procedures. I am required to take low dose aspirin daily for the rest of my natural life. I could go on and on but I won't.

And this is why it is absolutely critical that the clinic take a full comprehensive medical history on every potential HT patient before ever scheduling a HT procedure. The medical history must include past and current health issues along with their "complete" medication list. IMHO, the surgeon should review and sign off on every potential patient prior to making any decisions on moving forward with a surgical procedure including all other forms of cosmetic surgery.

Every concern including having the relative written consent/approval of other pertinent health care providers and medical specialists should be explained to the patient beforehand because sometimes the HT surgeon may need to temporarily pull the patient off certain meds like blood thinners, anti-coagulants, beta blockers, etc. before the procedure.

And diabetics do not heal as favorably in general terms so all of these factors need to be considered and weighed because they can potentially have a bearing on the final result. I know this firsthand having chronic diabetes myself. This is why the attending medical staff will want to get an accurate blood sugar reading on their diabetic patients before surgery ever commences. Not all patients take their prescribed meds as directed and even if they do, blood sugars can jump around unpredictably.

Just my two cents for those interested....

[northeastguy]

great stuff! As always, Thank you for your input. It is so rare to see someone who has such scars, shave down with a bic or even a 0 guard and expect to achieve a goal of total undetectable results. Like you said, individual physiology plays such a role. Does that mean they shouldn't shoot for that goal? absolutely not, and I think that is what Stevie might be driving at. If they have the patience and determination at the very least they will make substantial improvements. Just don't see the end result as a pass / fail. Even if someone goes from a long hairstyle due to scaring to a 2 or 3 guard they should consider it a victory..... and hopefully find peace with the results.

again, thanks Gill...

[gillenator]

You're welcome northeast...

The only other thing I wanted to add is that I get a lot of requests for opinions about scar revisions from past strip procedures and I really cannot comment since I am not a doctor nor have the actual hands on experience, only clinical observations from countless past cases presented to me with pics.

Overall, revisions to past strip scars, especially wider ones, usually do not come out favorably and each and every individual seeking repair should be physically examined for such a procedure.

Again, just my two cents for whatever its worth...

[gillenator]

And we must remember that the original intention or goal of getting the HT procedure in the first place was to fill in the thin balding areas, not necessarily to achieve the goal of seeing how short one can wear a future hair style length...

[Stevie R]

great stuff! As always, Thank you for your input. It is so rare to see someone who has such scars, shave down with a bic or even a 0 guard and expect to achieve a goal of total undetectable results. Like you said, individual physiology plays such a role. Does that mean they shouldn't shoot for that goal? absolutely not, and I think that is what Stevie might be driving at. If they have the patience and determination at the very least they will make substantial improvements. Just don't see the end result as a pass / fail. Even if someone goes from a long hairstyle due to scaring to a 2 or 3 guard they should consider it a victory..... and hopefully find peace with the results.

again, thanks Gill...

Well, ya I think people (if they have the patience) should try and get to a 0 guard, because I think anyone can achieve it, even yourself. Again, I am not saying it WILL happen, just saying it can...and if we look at the cases where scars are thin and multiple FUE passes have been attempted about half get to a 0 guard....from what I have seen. The problem is is that many don't document their scars on the internet after the second pass, probably because they are satisfied and the whole deal is forgotten and surely most would not send the ex-doc pics...surely it is the furthest thing from ones mind. That being said I have seen a couple cases fixed at a zero guard with just one pass, and a few very very close (not all on the internet like the Mwamba case or Daveone or the Umar case on video), I myself was close for much of my scar after my first pass as well...and it wasn't even really packed in all that good for much of the scar. I am not trying to start a "sh$t storm" here, but this is a public forum and I really do think a 0 guard can be reached for many patients if 2,3 or with bigger scars 4 passes were attempted, but often these attempts aren't made, nor is recell or other things to alleviate the issue of the whiteness that often subsides.

Perhaps your mind has been so far from thinking of a 0 guard because you have had multiple FUT's, your hair direction issues, the size of the scars or what have you that you cannot see these clear signs of success in others, and perhaps you don't really pay attention as much as I would to smaller scars with okay hair direction and color. My scar seems similar to Daveone's two small scars that he fixed with just 2 FUE passes...when I picked his brain about it and he was convinced that it was fixed at a 0 guard, maybe even at a shave but he didn't want too do that. I also look at similar scars in others, for example the Mwamba's patients scar that he fixed with just one FUE...I use to think a 0 guard wasn't possible but I have seen too many success' and not many examples to begin with to ignore. IDK...I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one, no hard feelings or anything...either way it seems that we all agree that you will likely get your 1 guard...and I suppose that is all that matters in your case, so heal well bro.

[gillenator]

When it comes to repair, it calls for stepping outside the box at times, but like northeast stated earlier, many have room for improvement...

[northeastguy]

Love your passion Stevie. If most had your resolve while dealing with the repair process, the end result would at very least be a huge improvement.... hopefully enough to move on with their lives.
I concur, we can agree to disagree. I do have this challenge though. present us with clear, "hi-res", same lighting and angles of before and after photos at a true 0 guard and I will withdraw my opinion that one with strip scars can not achieve that goal.

For me, I have a very good before photo of me just prior to a 2 guard. I've attached that image below. I am looking forward to the same photo in 6 months or so after 3 procedures. If it looks great, I'll play around with a 1 guard...

Now I do believe that might limit those who have limited damage and flat white scars but it would still be great to see if it truly is achieved. I do think one intangible is that each persons opinion of what is perfect is going to be very different. Regardless, this will be fun to follow.

Have you thought of buzzing down to a 1 guard at this point? How many months are you post 2nd procedure? sometimes the best way to determine where you are in the repair process is to take the plunge and see what your dealing with...