HT Density scale?

[sausage]

Hi, do surgeons work to some sort of density scale?

Is there some kind a density chart scale showing the density the patient can choose from?

Is there something like this:

0-20 Extremely thin density
20-40 thin density
40-60 medium density
60-80 Good density
80-100 Dense Packing

(this would be accompanied by photos)

Obviously no1 would go below 40 in density.

I ask as I need to understand what type of density I would limit myself going to. How do you explain to a surgeon what kind of density your after if there is no HT density scale? That work both ways, how does he show you what density you can expect?

I'd hope there is a proper way of doing this other than taking some other persons photo and going I want this density.

Also do surgeons work by eye when they aim for a certain density. Or do they have to mathematically work it out carefully so they don't make a gaf and end up running out of grafts?

PS. Sorry for repeating the word density so many times.

[Still-Researching]

Hi Mr Sausage :-)

Density plays an important role, when it comes to designing hairlines and managing your donor supply. Usually the best skilled Doctors like Rahal, Feller and Feriduni etc can dense pack up to 65+ density per sq cm. This would normally be done a few millimeters behind the hairline to make it look dense and not see through. The very hairline is often a lot less dense and made softly with grafts with only 1 hair. So maybe 30-40 going in front going up to 65+ and then further behind, you will to save donor hair go down to 30-50 depending on the patients wants, donor supply, expected future hair loss and current density.

As an example my own donor density was measured to 96 per sq cm in the back, but in my hairline where I had not receded, it was more like 70-75 - so when my HT was done, 65+ dense pack was basically bringing me up to my normal density in the front, at least if all will grow out (crossing my fingers)

Sure that nobody will transplant a density on purpose of 0-20 - that would be the result of poor growth only. Also a density of 80-100 is basically impossible technically and would also not be good use of donor.

As per your density scale below 60+ is normally considered dense packing.

[sausage]

Hi Mr Sausage :-)

Density plays an important role, when it comes to designing hairlines and managing your donor supply. Usually the best skilled Doctors like Rahal, Feller and Feriduni etc can dense pack up to 65+ density per sq cm. This would normally be done a few millimeters behind the hairline to make it look dense and not see through. The very hairline is often a lot less dense and made softly with grafts with only 1 hair. So maybe 30-40 going in front going up to 65+ and then further behind, you will to save donor hair go down to 30-50 depending on the patients wants, donor supply, expected future hair loss and current density.

As an example my own donor density was measured to 96 per sq cm in the back, but in my hairline where I had not receded, it was more like 70-75 - so when my HT was done, 65+ dense pack was basically bringing me up to my normal density in the front, at least if all will grow out (crossing my fingers)

Sure that nobody will transplant a density on purpose of 0-20 - that would be the result of poor growth only. Also a density of 80-100 is basically impossible technically and would also not be good use of donor.

As per your density scale below 60+ is normally considered dense packing.

Thanks, just the kind of answer I was hoping for......

This is not very accurate but sounds about right......

I have just measured the top part of my scalp that I need 'filled in' using a ruler (I know not an exact science)....

I worked out that:

My 14.5 length of bald/balding scalp x 10.5 width of scalp = 152.25 Square centimetres.

152.25 sq centimetres x 40 hairs per sq centimetre = 6090 Total.

Which works out kind of about right as I have been told that 6000 grafts can be obtained from one strip surgery which is what I need.

Although I would have liked dense packing also at the hairline so some sort of arrangement would need to be made to account for the extra hairs at the front.

I do have some existing hair but I'd prefer that wasn't even considered as it will fall out at some stage.

[Still-Researching]

Not sure it was clear from what I wrote above, but all density above 60 per sq cm is considered dense packing.

A 6000 graft strip surgery in one go, is a massive HT and I believe only a hand full of doctors in the world can do that, with a high percentage change of success and mainly H&W comes to mind.

Still that is a serious commitment both financially and scalp wise, so make sure you know exactly what you are getting yourself into.

Have you tried the 2 grade clipper look? You might be surprised how well it can look, when you get used to it.

Due to my HT - I am now shaven down to about a 2 grade - 6 mm length and could have sworn it would never work for me, but I am actually ok with it now... If I will later serious recede beyond saving - I would go for this look, which is possible if you do FUE, but not if you take the Strip route...

Please continue researching until you are 100% in your gut which procedure and doctor to go for...

[sausage]

Not sure it was clear from what I wrote above, but all density above 60 per sq cm is considered dense packing.

A 6000 graft strip surgery in one go, is a massive HT and I believe only a hand full of doctors in the world can do that, with a high percentage change of success and mainly H&W comes to mind.

Still that is a serious commitment both financially and scalp wise, so make sure you know exactly what you are getting yourself into.

Have you tried the 2 grade clipper look? You might be surprised how well it can look, when you get used to it.

Due to my HT - I am now shaven down to about a 2 grade - 6 mm length and could have sworn it would never work for me, but I am actually ok with it now... If I will later serious recede beyond saving - I would go for this look, which is possible if you do FUE, but not if you take the Strip route...

Please continue researching until you are 100% in your gut which procedure and doctor to go for...

Yes I understood the graft numbers for dense packing etc, thanks.

I am talking with Dr Rahal about the possibility of the 1 session 6000 graft FUT procedure. I have seen an example of one he has done before which looked amazing, although I am always conscious not to be fooled, as that example may be of an amazingly good candidate but I was told he had good density and average quality hair.

I am hoping this will cost around £15,000 maximum. If it goes close to or above £20,000 I will be put off as that will be pretty much all my hard earned savings gone. I have £26,000 in the bank and I will only be happy if £10,000 of that stays in my bank.

I got to the stage 2 years ago where I needed to clipper my hair, and have stayed that way since. Up to recently I had not looked at myself in the mirror as I can't stand how I look, I avoid reflections in car mirrors etc. I had been clipping it to a grade 2 but recently looked in the mirror and realised my hair was too far gone even for a grade 2 as the contrast between thick side and back hair and my thin hair on top looked stupid, I have now clipped it to grade 1 and still think that its too long, I will soon be clipping to a grade 0. I first need to grow it out a bit as I need to send some more photos to Rahal of my hair longer as the ones I sent him were of me with a grade 1 and you could not really sense how much hair was actually on top with it that short.

I am not rushing into anything, I will see if I can start looking at myself in the mirror again, see how I feel with a grade 0 cut.

I hate the look of FUT so I am really put off by it.

I would like to have FUE but I am too far gone, although I am not exactly clear on what at best £15,000 could do for me via FUE.

If I could have some sort of coverage by FUE, maybe going to 30 grafts per square centimetre, maybe even 20 grafts.

Going back to my scalp/graft calculations, taking into consideration that I would also consider having my hairline higher than it was original I have shortened my scalp length by 1.5 cm and cut off 0.5cm from the width as I will now take my existing hair into consideration.

This means I have a 130 square cm scalp area to cover, doing so at 20 grafts per Centimetre will take 2600 grafts in total which should be easily done via FUE.

I have no idea what 20 grafts per sq cm would look like grown out, probably not good. But this idea is intended for a buzzed look, grade 0 to grade 2.

Do you think this density will look ok buzzed? I am sure it will look much better than the receding, disappearing mess that I have right now.

I struggle to find surgeons pricing which annoys me, what is FUE usually? about $8-10 a graft which for me should be under the £15,000 I want to spend and if its a bit less I could afford to have some extra grafts to take it up to that budget.

Do you know if surgeons would be happy to do a 20 graft per sq cm HT?

I have just been on this website, it has an excellent graft estimator calculator, not sure on the accuracy of it but expect it to be there or thereabouts. You can choose the density you would like and the areas you need 'filled in'

Amazingly my ruler work was pretty damn accurate as this website calculates that 20 grafts per sq cm for the coverage I need would be 2524 grafts, (I calculated 2600).

So maybe FUE is actually a possibilty for me?

[Still-Researching]

Hi again,
You have to talk to the docs, as despite my years of research can only come with my 2 cents worth of opinion. Seems you are doing your research and good to hear you are not jumping to any conclusions and understand you are considering the right doctors based on your previous posts.

If Rahal will do 6000 strip he must be confident, that he can make you look good with such procedure.

FUE is my favorite because I would hate to put myself in a situation where I could not shave down. Obviously we cannot compare our situations, as I am a NW2.5 and you seem to be looking at a NW6 eventually, so keep that in mind.

20 per sqcm will look very thin even shaved down. Believe a density of 40-50 in hairline slowly reduced to 30-35 on top of the head and crown is minimum to look naturally - but you have to check with the docs to be sure.

If you infact put out 20.000 GBP you will have the funds to go for the best, but maybe you should look at a two step procedure, just to minimize risks.

I will send you a link on PM to a website (believe not allowed to post it here) with a patient who got 6000 FUE and how he looks now...

[sausage]

Hi again,
You have to talk to the docs, as despite my years of research can only come with my 2 cents worth of opinion. Seems you are doing your research and good to hear you are not jumping to any conclusions and understand you are considering the right doctors based on your previous posts.

If Rahal will do 6000 strip he must be confident, that he can make you look good with such procedure.

FUE is my favorite because I would hate to put myself in a situation where I could not shave down. Obviously we cannot compare our situations, as I am a NW2.5 and you seem to be looking at a NW6 eventually, so keep that in mind.

20 per sqcm will look very thin even shaved down. Believe a density of 40-50 in hairline slowly reduced to 30-35 on top of the head and crown is minimum to look naturally - but you have to check with the docs to be sure.

If you infact put out 20.000 GBP you will have the funds to go for the best, but maybe you should look at a two step procedure, just to minimize risks.

I will send you a link on PM to a website (believe not allowed to post it here) with a patient who got 6000 FUE and how he looks now...

Ok thanks for your help.

I just drew out a 1cm sq section onto a piece of paper and drew 20 dots, and yeah it looks a bit sparse, although I think it would look vastly better than a bare scalp.

I could stretch to 23 grafts per cm sq in getting it to the £15,000 mark if I can get it done for $8 a graft.

If I went for 30 grafts per cm sq I would be looking at £20,000 which is too far for me to go.

Do you know of any surgeons offering less than $8 a graft via FUE or any who offer lower priced grafts once you reach a certain number of grafts, ie up to 2500 grafts could be $8 each and after that they might be $5 ?

[Still-Researching]

For pricing - take a look at my post under hair transplant veterans and see the one on pricing, and you will see that your price per graft is not impossible at all.

But you will still need 2-3 sessions/HT to reach 6000 grafts - you can not be done with 1 FUE HT with these kind of numbers.

Personally would give it a year, and spend the time following some of the online forums were the currently is several 2500-3000 FUE HT, that are growing in with pictures, see the final result and ask if people are happy, and then make your decision based on this. Better be conservative especially because you are heading towards NW6, you need to make every donor hair count and cannot afford to make a wrong decision and then change plan...

[sausage]

For pricing - take a look at my post under hair transplant veterans and see the one on pricing, and you will see that your price per graft is not impossible at all.

But you will still need 2-3 sessions/HT to reach 6000 grafts - you can not be done with 1 FUE HT with these kind of numbers.

Personally would give it a year, and spend the time following some of the online forums were the currently is several 2500-3000 FUE HT, that are growing in with pictures, see the final result and ask if people are happy, and then make your decision based on this. Better be conservative especially because you are heading towards NW6, you need to make every donor hair count and cannot afford to make a wrong decision and then change plan...

I am not necessarily in need of 6000 grafts, I think 3500 would be enough, I still have hair covering most of my head, its just thinned out a lot, around my crown its a bit denser than the rest.

I just need to get some photos of my hair longer to Rahal, get some feedback on whats the best thing he could do for me under £15,000 via FUE and if thats not good enough then I will have the huge dilema of going through with FUT or not, FUT scares the crap outta me. I am surprised something so barbaric that leaves a massive scare on the back of your head can be so expensive, surgeons should include a scar touch up 6 months after surgery which should be included in the price.

[sausage]

For pricing - take a look at my post under hair transplant veterans and see the one on pricing, and you will see that your price per graft is not impossible at all.

I can't find your post on this, could you send me a link?

Thanks.